Making the most of a good rifle

[357maximum]

No, that's Creedmoor position. Off hand shoot-offs use the full size targets at 150 or 200 meters, Match Directors option. I make no claims to being a particularly good off-hand shooter, just was never able to get my body to cooperate and stop wiggling around.

Rick

I would still be screwed, I ain't no freaking contortionist

Give me prone and a long barreled single shot pistol please.

[357maximum]

Proper alloy will make the slug in question shoot right nicely Ian, will be as good as it could be...well no, but it is better.

[btroj]

I would still be screwed, I ain't no freaking contortionist

Give me prone and a long barreled single shot pistol please.

With a bipod if possible. My 15 inch 309 JDJ is scary accurate but damn it is hard on my elbows. Gun goes up, elbows go down. Elbow pads help but it still gets my attention. There is sometime invigorating about a 165 at 2400 fps from a handgun.

[357maximum]

The bipod thing was a given...or so I thought. My favorite way to shoot a specialty pistol is prone off from a bipod.

I use a 1/2 sand bag made from an old shot bag but only loosely/partially filled with lizard bedding (aka walnut hull media) under my right elbow...helps more than a pad methinks anyway. Helps with both the skid back and with the torque.

[geargnasher]

Thanks, Mike, I figured a greasier, tougher alloy might have something to do with it. Big difference between ww and 50/50 along those same lines but one step down, the hardened 50/50 squirts through a tight throat with less shaving and objection than straight WW, and fewer debris sloughed off to get smeared into the corners of the grooves.

Gear

[357maximum]

Ian...a little supposisition on my part but here it is:

....and that's why I think Wd'ed 50/50 works so well in leverguns....enhance that same alloy with a bit of rr babbit or cu enhance rr babbit and paradise can actually be found on a consistent basis.

[357maximum]

If Tim can do it so can you. A couple of weeks ago we were at a shoot in Clarksville, AR and he said he wanted to try Creedmoor so I handed him my XP in 308, showed him how and handed him a box of 311365's. He started hitting a 50 yard plate and was giggling like a little girl. Fun times.

Prone is legal in Silhouette BUT nothing from the elbows to the hands including the gun can touch the ground or have any support. That's much more difficult than Creedmoor.

Rick

Has Tim bounced around on bulldozers/backhoes/trackhoes/trenchers for a good part of his adult life??? Not saying I could not do it, but I bet I would not like it. I have watched it done, good nuff for this worn out wretch who once was a ditchdigger in another life. In the right light i both feel like and resemble my avatar ya know.

[HollandNut]

I have found that no matter how great the rifle or components and the time spent fiddling with them , that I am still the weakest link ... The greatest components in the world can't make up for the shooters errors ..

One of my dead heroes ( Jack O'Connor ) said in his tome' 'The Hunting Rifle' something to the effect of :

"When my wibbles compensated for my wobbles or I flinched just right or something , I'd get a group smaller than 1 1/2" ( five shots ) , sometimes a good deal smaller , but I couldn't count on it ( being repeatable )"

I'll never be a MOA or sub MOA shooter with anything , and don't worry too much over it

[btroj]

Yes, the shooter is the weakest link BUT a good rifle and good ammo make it easier to learn.

Think of it this way. My rifle holds x ring, your hold 9 ring. We both shoot a 9 at 9 o'clock. I know my hold was good, I can then be assured I missed a wind change. You assume all is well and fine. I adjust and next shot is am x, you don't and your next shot is a 7 at 9 o'clock because the previous shot was actually on the right edge of your group, not the left.

See how knowing the rifle and ammo shoot well lets you have the confidence to make the change? Without a good gun and good ammo it is about impossible to learn to be a good shooter.

[HollandNut]

true dat no doubt

[Love Life]

Launch....launch....but what else? I keep seeing that sharp rifling imparting imperfections on the boolit as it travels down the barrel. Getting the bullet into the barrel unharmed is important, but what is the rifling doing to the boolit as it travels down the barrel? Is that knife edge rifling really working in your favor?

Is the sharp front drive band a good thing? Why? What I see (handguns only so may be irrelevant) is that RN and WFN with a nice taper to the ogive and bearing surface have unbroken coatings. Boolits with a sharp front drive band get broken coatings. Additionally sharp rifling CUTS into the coating. Now, I know rifles to hand guns is an apples to MRAP comparison, but rifling is rifling.

Earlier a member mention a gain twist. Why wouldn't a gain twist benefit you? Control the launch RPM. Too bad no squeeze bores are around to play with to see if reduction in diameter might swage the voids out of boolits as they travel the bore.

The wall I see is that every rifle is a law unto itself. Trying to come up with info that will allow anybody to shoot cast with REAL jacketed performance in anything from the wally world special to the bench gun is an almost impossible task.

[btroj]

Rick, that info about crimp not doing much but hold the bullet under recoil is so true. Everyone wants more crimp to improve powder burn or consistency but it just doesn't cut it. I have even used a 44 mag expander for 45 Colt ammo to improve neck tension.

Might be why I like the Redding bushing dies, it lets me determine the tension during sizing instead of using a stock size expander to do it for me.

Speaking of expanders, anyone got opinions on them?

[Love Life]

What opinions would you like on expanders? For your rifle I would be looking at a separate expander die with mandrel sized to give you the neck tension you want...or not. Just a mandrel expander and then you can use your bushing dies...

Of course with your cast boolits you will want a slight flare to allow you seat the boolit. Mebbe a custom mandrel for a M die.

[btroj]

I actually have some custom mandrels for a Sinclair expander die. They will size to an appropriate dimension and give a little belling to keep the bullets intact. They are also .002 or more larger than my M-die.

I need a longer expander die so I can easily adjust the die to control the belling and keep it consistent. Current body is too short to use it that way.

I am looking to control tension entirely with my bushings for the new rifle. Time will tell how well that works out but I have no doubt it should be good.

I need to have Buckshot make me some new expanders for other calibers. The 375 in particular.

[Love Life]

Sounds like you have what you need. Now you just have to put ammo together and start shooting...and taking notes.

Now, the real question is: Does your rainbow rifle shoot with a lisp?

Do you have quickloads? What's the slowest powder you plan to use with your rifle? What part of the powder speed spectrum do you plan to play in?

[btroj]

The rifle hasn't gotten here yet so I have no idea what she sounds like.

I do not have quickload. I have considered it but I am a cheap sort of guy.

I plan to start with RE19. It is similar to 4831 in burn rate. I have some AA3100 that is a touch slower and some I4350 if I want to go faster. If I really want to use a faster powder I have some N540 I can try.

I do know that at some point I will use some 2400 in it for lower speed loads. I will start in the 15 gr gp range there and figure to stop around 18 or so. Once I get I to the 1750 fps range I will call it good, I find that is about the faster I get with good accuracy from 2400.

And yes, notes. Lots of notes. Lots of chrono time and targets.

First thing to do once I get the file is make some cases. I have a bunch of new 06 cases just waiting to be cut down. The holder I got from Sinclair that lets me use my cordless drill for spinning cases while neck turning will save me from carpal tunnel!

[Love Life]

I've often wondered if the slow rifle powders would be the ticket. I mean 7828 and down. Yeah, you may have incomplete burn but then again accuracy my be there.

[btroj]

I'm not sure I need to go quite as slow as 7828. I think of this case as being similar to a 308. Therefore I figure that more 06 friendly powders, like the RE19, are plenty slow. Pressure should still be high enough to get a good, clean burn but will build gently enough to prevent the damage that can occur when a big pressure spike at ignition hammers the bullet out of shape.

A gentle push, not a hard shove.

[Love Life]

Wouldn't a hard shove come from the faster powders?

[btroj]

Yep. Stuff like 2400. Key is to use the 2400 for appropriate load levels. At 1750 fps the pressure is still low enough to allow decent accuracy. If I tried to go 2100 fps with 2400 the accuracy wouldn't be there, he bullets would be damaged enough on ignition to make it not worthwhile.

Trying to use a powder like RE 15 for full pressure loads will spike pressure a bit faster than I want. The RE19 will slow that down just enough to are the bullet more gently into the rifling. I also can get the most from a slower powder by having a longer than normal barrel.