swageing paperpatched bullets.

[johnson1942]

the last time i posted this i was called simple and came down on hard as this form was for the jacketed bullet shooters. scared me off but here i am again. does any body swage for paperpatch bullets as i do? i swage for 5 diff diam. and have several guns that shoot my paperpatch bullets and do they shoot well. would like to connect with us simple swaggers as we are swaggers also. i dont have a long list of accomplishments after my name but i can shoot as far as one can see well and hit what im aiming at with my swaged paperpatch bullets and thats good enough with me. any one else doing this? im very isolated and love it. my countys average ranch size is 10,000 acres and 25 miles from me in the next co. it is 100,000 acres. just want some one to share info with.

[toolz568]

I am a huge fan of cast boolits and started swaging for a few of my semi's when my cast loads performed poorly. I really liked the results I have with swaged bullets. With that said, I push paper patch bullets 2350 fps with excellent results out of my hunting rifle. I could probably push them faster, but have not tried. I have to wonder how many people understand the advantages of paper patch.

[280Ackley]

I would be interested in reading about your process.

[raingauge]

I haven't been interested in swaging until I read this, now you have my attention. I have an old Hollywood single stage press, I've heard it's strong enough. Are you using lead wire or cast cores? A little more info please

[johnson1942]

i want to thank you all for the interest. i have a corbin press and several different dies and base and nose punches. when i first use them i used lead wire but now i cast bullets and run them through my swageing dies. in the last year i really expanded the use of my dies because someone one from cast bullets suggested i resize my cast bullets to fit all my dies instead of buying new dies and moulds. its a simple solution to really get going. i get my push through resizeing dies from doughty enterprises out of montana. they cost 31 dollars includeing shipping. i now have several and i can do a lot of casting with the diff moulds i have and then reshape them into swagged bullets. the latest thing i did was buy a .38 lee mould for 19 dollars and drill the mould out for a .40 330 grain core. that goes into my .440 swageing die and out comes a perfect .440 330 grain swagged bullet. i shoot two 45/70/s with swaged paperpatch and several diff. fasttwist custom muzzle loaders ive built and they all shoot paperpatch swaged by me. it will be the best investment you ever made for the cal of gun or guns you shoot. paper patch in a modern gun cal go very fast. be as accurate as a copper jacked bullet and are very clean for your barrel to shoot. they are very cost effective. how much does the copper cost to make 30,000 bullets? the paper for the same is between 25 to 50 dollars. i could go on and on but this is a overview of what i do. please share with me what you do and feel free to ask any questions you want. swageing and paperpatching go hand and hand. you can desgin the bullet and have a die nose punch and base punch made like your design. never try to extrude hard lead or you will blow your costly die apart. been their, 25 years ago i did that and learned the hard way. pure lead is best extruded. how ever i reshape harder cast bullets all the time with just enough pressure to reshape them with out destroying the dies. thats what i mostly do now. thanks for the interest.

[Wolftracker]

I've been swaging some of my cast bullets as well, though not for paper patching. I like to re-shape 45's for my 45ACP in my point former using light pressure, as the cast bullets are a bit harder than pure lead. Since the cast bullets are fairly close to the finished shape anyway, it doesn't take a lot of pressure to alter them. So far, I haven't had any problems doing this but I suppose I'd better be careful of how hard the lead is. What I'm using is slightly harder than wheel weights.

[mikeym1a]

I am very tired, and a bit confused..... Do you swage your boolits before or after patching? Can you give a step by step description? Like I said, I'm really tired right now, and will soon head off to bed. Thanks for an interesting OP. mikey

[johnson1942]

thats pretty hard but i suspect you have a feel on the handle that you wont go beyond. two bad things if a die comes apart. one your out a fair piece of money and two when they come apart, they really come apart. in a book i dont have any more from the late 1800 their is a story of a gun maker that also swaged bullets for guns he sold. he was given the lead for a gun he had sold a customer and cast cores from it and proceeded to swage bullets from it. it was too hard a lead and the swageing die blew apart so violently that a chunk just missed his head and buried it self in his ceiling as if it was shot from a gun. it would have killed him if it had hit him.i also reshape one cast .458 bullet that i only squeeze a little. it trues it to a perfect .459 round and smooths the nose and base and they are all the same perfect length. they still have the lube grooves in them but the bullets are very uniform. i use them in a .50 cal sabot in a special long distance sabot rifle i built for my self. drive tacks at any range.

[johnson1942]

i swage the bullet before patching. as i use different paper of diff. thickness at diff times i swage the bullets mostly slightly over the size i need. i then reduce them to the diam i need for the paper im useing. on all my rifles i use the standard double wrap with the paper cut a a angle put on the bullet opposite the twist of the rifle. i have one rifle i use the single wrap chase system. it is very simple, i take a precut rectangle shaped piece of paper and go around the bullet once. i hold the paper on at the seam and then fold over the over hang onto the base. it covers about 3/4 of the base. the powder is in the barrel and a wad has been placed in the bore about 1 inch. the bullet is then inserted into the bore onto the wad . my range rod pushes the bullet and wad onto the powder. the wad under the bullets base keeps the paper from comming off of the bullet. this gun is very consistantly accurate with this chase system. it was cranky with the double wrap system. the rest of my guns use the double wrap system as they arent cranky. my two 45/70s shoot better than i can aim. their are so many things one can do with swageing. trueing up cast bullets and paperpatching is 2 of them.

[BT Sniper]

Buckshot here does a lot of lead swaging. Certainly wouldn't think anyone should run you off.

Swage on!

BT

[Sitzme]

Another category for the postal match! I have gathered info on paper patching but have not done any yet. Swaging for patched bullets certainly fits here IMHO. After all it is squeezing lead into cylinders! It will be interesting to follow this and see what tricks come out.

[clodhopper]

I have tried paper patching in an attempt feed a M-1 garand. With little success, might be the feeding cycle, might be the gas port has a burr on it, but finally decided to go to swagging jacketed.
I used cast bullets sized down to .301, some onion skin writing paper found in a dusty bookstore, and jonson paste wax.
I have and would entertain offers on a couple sets of paper patch swaging dies .450 and .301 for a corbin seriesII press, not activly trying to sell them but have very little intrest in blackpowder.
Trades for tools to make jacketed bullets would be of most intrest.
I feel shamed by the guys who made you feel unwelcome on the swagging forum.
There is a book by Paul Johnson titled "The Paper Jacket" full of great information on rolling your own.
It's still in print.

[johnson1942]

their is a gunsmith up in n.dak close to bismark that tweek my interest in paperpatching 30 years ago. he paperpatched for a nine mm auto pistol. it cycled real good and shot well. never forgot that experience so slowly got into it my self. i think he sweezed the paper on tighter to the bullet after wrapping with his swageing dies. i saw him shoot it into a big barrel of water and it fed real well. i love my swageing equipment as with it and the several reduceing dies i have i can make about any kind of bullet. i think buckshot makes reduceing dies. ive read that many here get them from him. i dont know who it was who suggested reduceing dies from cast bollits but i want to thank him. he greatly expanded my abilty to make bullets for paperpatching. thank you

[Rhoa4396]

johnson1942,

I would love to hear anything you have to say about paper patching. I have read just a little about it and it seems like an interesting alternative for someone who wants to keep their firearms functioning under 'less than ideal' circumstances. I do swage a little but that was simply for 7mm in a 7/08 back in the days I shot IHMSA. I was thinking about paper patching in my .41 but am not sure exactly where to start. I figure trying to fit the boolit is like trying to fit for my .50 BP rifle... having to vary both the boolit AND the patch to "get them working together".

What do you think of the idea of starting out with an undersize PP boolit that is paper patched and then swaging it to final size?

Ken

[johnson1942]

i pm/d a long message on the subject, let me know if it came through.

[Rhoa4396]

i pm/d a long message on the subject, let me know if it came through.

Hi,

If that PM was for me, it never came through.

Ken
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[johnson1942]

nuts, it was long and detailed. ill try again tommorow. glad your interested in swagged paperpatch bullets, its a very good way to shoot.

[powderburnerr]

I swage all mine for my 45-2&7/8 and have dies on order for the 50s 44s and 40s getting the dies is the hard part ,using them is the berries ,