First outing with the #301618 NOE boolits

[Nobade]

OK, an update to this thread. I have tried everything the NRA said to do with these boolits - hard lead, patch back from the ogive, fast (760) gunpowder, etc. None of that resulted in any joy. I would either get poor accuracy or bore leading and REALLY poor accuracy. So today I went back to what I know works in other rifles. Soft lead, (acww) patch run over the ogive, duplex load of 4227+WC860, patch jammed into the leade, extremely minimal neck tension so boolits can be finger seated. Tail-less patching. It worked! The 30-06 was reliably holding a 1MOA diamond swinger at 600 yds, and easily inside a 1/2 scale torso plate at 750 yd for vertical. And it would hit it when I made the right wind calls. I am extremely pleased with how this boolit is working now, following the NRA instructions took me down a long and frustrating path but I am glad to know that the same rules that work for other PP rifle loads work for this one too. Now it's time to load up a bunch of them and see if I can hang with the guys in our local 600yd. reduced F class match....

-Nobade

[WILCO]

Enjoyed the update. Glad to read of success! Any chance of running this out to 1,000 yds.?

[Nobade]

Hopefully at some point. Our home range only goes out to 750, but if I ever make it out to where I can shoot further I plan on taking this rifle and giving it a go. I'm hoping to get up to the Whittington center to watch the BP creedmoor matches toward the end of September so I'll have a chance to shoot at the buffalo on the hillside that's about 1200 yards out.

-Nobade

[WILCO]

That's great! Please keep us posted as you go forward with this.

[CJR]

Nobade,

Congrats on your success! What's your estimated velocity for your load? Holding 1MOA out to 600+ yds indicates a very stable CB design. What brand rifle and glass were you using?

Best regards,

CJR

[Nobade]

Hi,
I am guessing it's in the 2400 - 2500 fps range, next time out I'll take the chronograph and find out for real. Rifle is a Rem 700 that I trued up, pillar bedded into the factory ADL wood stock, has a Brux 1:14 twist barrel and a nice match chamber. Scope is a Vortex Viper HS 2.5 - 10. I just got a Viper PST mil/mil front focal one in, so I'm going to swap them shortly. The mil reticle and zero stop will make long(er) range shooting work better I think. Makes wind holds easier for sure.

-Nobade

[303Guy]

Great news! Congrats. So, do you think we might get to see a few pictures? This is after all, a major step for paper patching and your duplex load is a major break through.

[Nobade]

303 Guy, thanks for the congrats, but I don't think I am doing anything groundbreaking here. Heck, this is where I came to learn about this stuff from Pdawg and all the other guys who have been here before. Duplex loads aren't anything new either, I learned about that maybe 25 years ago when folks started messing around with the super slow 50BMG surplus powders. The only new ground I am plowing is my own thing, just putting everything together in the same place in my own rifle. I am grateful for all the work done by people who came before me, because I am not sure I would have figured out all the little tricks that make smokeless PP loads work without their experimenting. We certainly have learned a lot since those original NRA articles were published back in the 1970's, I still can't figure out how they managed to do what they say they did. They were shooting this same boolit to 1000 yds with good accuracy out of a 300 H&H mag IIRC, and everything they did I followed as well and it all failed. But using the techniques I learned on this forum, it does work. I will get some pictures up if you like, though there are some nearer the beginning of this thread of the exact same boolit. The rifle isn't anything special, but if you want to see it I'll shoot some pics. I do have a new Shilen 1:15 barrel blank out in the shop and am planning on building some sort of heavy long range rifle with that, likely with a MBR Tooley stock or something similar. I just haven't decided on the cartridge, 308 or 30-06 or 300 win mag or 300 H&H or 300 RUM. I think I want the H&H but it's the only one I don't have a reamer for so would have to save up the money to get one. I think it would be fun to really lean on this boolit and see just what I can get it to do way out there. And using this super slow powder, the bigger cases are better since I would be able to get good velocity without pushing the pressure too high - which seems to be the trick to PPCB shooting. We shall see...

-Nobade

[CJR]

Nobade,

Thanks for the update! The NRA used a 300 Win Mag for their 3000+ fps PPCB. However, I can recommend the 300 H&H which is reputed to be the most efficient of all the 300 Mags. Though my son and I did achieve about 3300 fps with PPCB, in his 300 H&H, it only had hunting accuracy; i.e. nothing subMOA yet. However, most of the loadings have been conservative with W760 and used to check PPCB functionality. However, we're now starting to increase the loads to obtain better accuracy.

We are mostly concentrating on hivel loads (2500-3000+ fps) for the 308 Win with two new modified NRA PPCB designs from custom moulds that we had made recently, i.e. a 160 gr. & 180 gr., and a standard 150 gr. LBT LFN.

Keep up the the good work!

Best regards,

CJR

[hardy]

OK, an update to this thread. I have tried everything the NRA said to do with these boolits - hard lead, patch back from the ogive, fast (760) gunpowder, etc. None of that resulted in any joy. I would either get poor accuracy or bore leading and REALLY poor accuracy. So today I went back to what I know works in other rifles. Soft lead, (acww) patch run over the ogive, duplex load of 4227+WC860, patch jammed into the leade, extremely minimal neck tension so boolits can be finger seated. Tail-less patching. It worked! The 30-06 was reliably holding a 1MOA diamond swinger at 600 yds, and easily inside a 1/2 scale torso plate at 750 yd for vertical. And it would hit it when I made the right wind calls. I am extremely pleased with how this boolit is working now, following the NRA instructions took me down a long and frustrating path but I am glad to know that the same rules that work for other PP rifle loads work for this one too. Now it's time to load up a bunch of them and see if I can hang with the guys in our local 600yd. reduced F class match....

-Nobade

Hi Nobade,when you state" Tail-less" patching do you mean a totally exposed base or a patched base with the twisted tail trimmed off flush? Also is this a plain base boolit? I,m guessing so but I know where that gets me,so I,m asking those in the know.Cheers,Mike..

[Nobade]

Hi Nobade,when you state" Tail-less" patching do you mean a totally exposed base or a patched base with the twisted tail trimmed off flush? Also is this a plain base boolit? I,m guessing so but I know where that gets me,so I,m asking those in the know.Cheers,Mike..

Hi Mike,
Just like I do for the black powder boolits. Leave about 1/16" of the patch hanging over the end, twist it around and set the base on a hot plate. It tucks in nicely and leaves a little round spot of lead in the middle of the base. I didn't think it would work on a boolit so small in diameter, but I tried it and it worked beautifully. I ended up cutting the patches 7/8 inch wide so they just go over the ogive and leave just a little on the other end to fold under. I also use water only, no sticky stuff.

-Nobade

[hardy]

Hi Nobade,
Gotcha on the patch info. but I,m still guessing on whether the boolit is plain based.I don,t own a lot of molds and I,ve patched both plain base and gas check designs with varying degrees of success.I need to hear it from the horses mouth,PB or G/C design? Thanks a lot,Cheers,Mike

[Harter66]

Mine is w/ a check base , but the moulds were cut both ways for this run.

[Nobade]

Hi Nobade,
Gotcha on the patch info. but I,m still guessing on whether the boolit is plain based.I don,t own a lot of molds and I,ve patched both plain base and gas check designs with varying degrees of success.I need to hear it from the horses mouth,PB or G/C design? Thanks a lot,Cheers,Mike

Oops, I forgot to include that! It has a gascheck shank but I'm not using any checks on it.

-Nobade

[hardy]

That,s what I needed to know,one more variable to play with.Thankyou Sir,I never could grasp the fact that some jacketed(SHHHH!) bullets have exposed bases but they don,t suffer from gas cutting.Gonna try me some of each and compare results.Thanks again,Cheers Mike..

[303Guy]

Don't sell yourself short, Nobade. You are doing ground breaking work (and having fun doing it it seems ). I'd post a photo of a tailless patch but photobucket isn't working properly on my PC for some reason. I went tailless because the folded over patch was impressing into the boolit and sometimes the crimped tail stayed on the boolit making me wonder whether it coming off inconsistently would affect accuracy.

[wmitty]

Nobade,

Do you have an idea of what weight boolit the 1-15" twist Shilen will stabilize?

[Nobade]

Nobade,

Do you have an idea of what weight boolit the 1-15" twist Shilen will stabilize?

I'm sure hoping it will work with this 171gr. one! If not, I have a 150gr. Loverin one, also from NOE, that should work for sure. The 1:14 has been fine with up to 180gr, so I have high hopes for the 1:15.

-Nobade

[LynC2]

Nobade,

Do you have an idea of what weight boolit the 1-15" twist Shilen will stabilize?

Plugging in the numbers for the NOE 171 gr PP boolit, it will stabilize at 2400 fps and above in the 15" twist.
http://kwk.us/twist.html

Now that Nobade has found what works, I need to go try mine again. My full power 30-06 loads were only grouping around 3" using the same techniques that he had used previously. I've been meaning to try some more, but I seem to be tinkering with everything else. A classic case of too many irons in the fire!

[303Guy]

I don't trust stability calculators that put too much emphasis on velocity. Velocity only applies with spitzers if I remember correctly. For round nose and flat nose, not so much. I wish Border Barrels still had their stability calculator online. Thing is, what is being said about muzzle velocity is that the higher the velocity the higher the spin and the higher the stability and while this is true it is also misleading because what is not being said is that the higher the velocity the higher the tipping moment which has to be countered by the spin. So the reverse can also be true, i.e. the higher the velocity the lower the stability.