AR-10 Advice?

[freebullet]

I've owned several dpms ars', they need to be ran with a WET(well oiled) bolt for the first 5-700 rnds. They won't run dry very well until well broken in. I wouldn't have a problem getting another.

Jp rifle is good to go for sure, but the one I shot cost 3x$ of a dpms. I would stick with the Sr25 magazine patterned rifles because of magazine availability. No experience with cast from them yet.

[cbrick]

Rick, he needs a bench built from concrete blocks with a nice poured concrete top.

Want me to shoot him a PM and stress that point? I hate to see a guy held back by his range facilities.....

You can try but I can tell you what he'll say.

Me: You need to bench that rifle.
John: I don't hunt from a bench, I hunt this way.
Me: Your not hunting, your working up loads. Two very different things.
John: This is how I practice for hunting.
Me: Your not practicing for hunting, your working up loads. Your trying to find out what the gun/load combo is capable of and to do that you need to take you as much out of the equation as possible. A bench goes a long way doing that.
John: I don't hunt that way.
Me:

Have had that conversation a dozen times. I've come to the conclusion that I don't think John wants a bench. I'll give him credit, he does shoot some pretty impressive groups considering the shooting position. He enjoys casting and shooting as much as I do, I think if he got some serious time on a solid bench he would find out how much fun it can be looking for that as yet undiscovered one hole group.

Rick

[45 2.1]

He's right Rick, he doesn't need a bench. On the other hand tell him you do. Get the bench built for you and convince him to try it.

[crawfobj]

Anyone have any experience with the Sig 716 series? I'm intrigued by those for some reason.

[btroj]

Hate to say this Rick but I have worked up many hunting loads offhand. Then again they were for a lever action and shots weren't expected past 100 yards.

If he has questions on casting or landing cut him off and tell him that without a proper bench you can't answer the question.

[Lloyd Smale]

sold mine because it was just so heavy it took the fun out of hunting. If i were looking right now id check out that newly designed dpms gun. Its suppose to be not much heavier then a an ar15

[winelover]

You can try but I can tell you what he'll say.

Me: You need to bench that rifle.
John: I don't hunt from a bench, I hunt this way.
Me: Your not hunting, your working up loads. Two very different things.
John: This is how I practice for hunting.
Me: Your not practicing for hunting, your working up loads. Your trying to find out what the gun/load combo is capable of and to do that you need to take you as much out of the equation as possible. A bench goes a long way doing that.
John: I don't hunt that way.
Me:

Have had that conversation a dozen times. I've come to the conclusion that I don't think John wants a bench. I'll give him credit, he does shoot some pretty impressive groups considering the shooting position. He enjoys casting and shooting as much as I do, I think if he got some serious time on a solid bench he would find out how much fun it can be looking for that as yet undiscovered one hole group.

Rick

I have shot many MOA groups, off a tripod, in the past. I've been shooting and developing loads this way for a long time. I am comfortable with my style and have confidence with it. Granted it might take longer but more shooting = more fun! J-words will do MOA, my way, so I see no reason why it wont work with cast.

Biggest stumbling block, with semi-autos, is finding a boolit that will feed 100% of the time. This AR only likes spitzer like boolits. I've tried dozens of boolit designs, that Rick and other members have donated. That eliminates a lot of accurate designs, from the equation.

Secondly, the powder and or charge must be capable of cycling the action----- 100% of the time. Consequently a lot of powders, known for 308W accuracy, are passed over. SR 4759, being one example. I have found this powder to be capable of fine accuracy but when charges begin cycling the action, groups become shotgun patterns. AA 5744, does basically the same thing, although a little more forgiving. Gave up on Varget, also.

Currently using AA 4350 and it looks very promising but still consistently getting un-called flyers that destroy good groups. Tried magnum primers versus standard. Tried heat treating verses air cooled.

Might have to try a different powder. AA 2520 might be the next in line. My stock of slow powder is just about exhausted. And as many know, not readily available. BTW, obtaining data is another exercise in futility. It's just not out there. I extrapolated most of mine from Bruce B's tread, on the M1A. Thanks, Bruce.


Winelover

[btroj]

Please build Rick a proper bench. At his age he needs all the support he can get.

[cbrick]

As I said, John shoots pretty impressive groups with that shooting position and does so consistently. That said he is a long way from convincing me that they wouldn't be a good deal better from a bench, possibly even omitting or reducing those flyers he speaks of.

Also as I said, there is a selfish motive to how badly John needs a good shooting bench. Rick needs one.

Rick

[btroj]

If Rick isn't looking out for Rick then who is?

Selfish motives are not always a bad thing. I would want a proper bench too. If nothing else my Sinclair front rest wouldn't sit very well on a tripod......

[Just Duke]

Being a former owner of an AR-10 forum. www.AR10.net I highly recommend the Armalite. I had a rack full at one time and now down to just a few.
Accuracy matches a bolt gun. Velocity is a touch slower due to gas bleed off from piston cycling. I have pics and target many have seen here.

[45 2.1]

Biggest stumbling block, with semi-autos, is finding a boolit that will feed 100% of the time. This AR only likes spitzer like boolits.

Secondly, the powder and or charge must be capable of cycling the action----- 100% of the time.

Currently using AA 4350 and it looks very promising but still consistently getting un-called flyers that destroy good groups. Winelover

The RCBS small meplat radius nose 308-Sil type works fine for me in the numerous semi 308s it's been tried in. You can get 100% cycling by going a different way without the flyers provided you go almost full power loading. Should you want to discuss it, PM me.

[cbrick]

The RCBS small meplat radius nose 308-Sil type works fine for me in the numerous semi 308s it's been tried in. You can get 100% cycling by going a different way without the flyers provided you go almost full power loading. Should you want to discuss it, PM me.

John, if you decide to take him up and try this boolit and don't have that mold I do. Let me know if ya need some.

On another note . . . John sent me plans for a shooting bench.

Rick

[45 2.1]

John, if you decide to take him up and try this boolit and don't have that mold I do. Rick

That would be the 30 Silhouette mold, not the 308-165-Sil RCBS mold which casts too small for excellent accuracy in the semi-autos.

[cbrick]

Ok, I have . . .

RCBS - 150 gr FPGC w/driving bands modified by Erik and casts just shy of .312" - Nose .300"
RCBS - 150 gr FPGC not modified and casts just over .309" - Nose .300"
RCBS - 180 gr SPGC casts just over .309" - Nose .300"
RCBS - 180 gr FPGC casts .3105" - Nose .302"
RCBS - 165 gr Silhouette casts at .3102" - Nose .3025"

I assume the one your referring to is the RCBS - 180 gr SPGC casts just over .309" (two lube grooves)

All bullets cast with CWW +2% Sn, air cooled.

Rick

[45 2.1]

Ok, I have . . .

RCBS - 150 gr FPGC w/driving bands modified by Erik and casts just shy of .312"
RCBS - 150 gr FPGC not modified and casts just over .309"
RCBS - 180 gr SPGC casts just over .309"
RCBS - 180 gr FPGC casts .3105"
RCBS - 165 gr Silhouette casts at .3102"

I assume the one your referring to is the RCBS - 180 gr SPGC casts just over .309" (two lube grooves)

Rick

No............ all of those cast too small for what he needs in an AR-10. There is more than driving bands on a boolit, the nose doesn't come up to snuff either.

[cbrick]

Ok, see post #35, I added the nose measurements. Not sure but I don't think John has slugged the bore to know what groove or bore diameters are, wish he would.

So far he says some of his best groups were with the RCBS - 165 gr Silhouette that casts at .3102" - Nose .3025", as cast weight 171 gr. He sized this boolit with a .311" die so lubed only. This boolit has a supported nose but only .240" of .640" boolit length is bearing surface. A meplat of .125". Air cooled WW +2% Sn @ 12 BHN. This boolit feeds well in his AR. No to very minimal leading as checked with a bore scope. I don't remember what powder he said he was testing with this boolit.

With the 311365 he's been shooting the nose doesn't matter, it's not a bore rider but it casts at .3105" and was also sized with a .311" die. Possible downsides to this boolit is an unsupported nose and only 40% of boolit length is bearing surface, the boolit length is 1.265" and the nose length is .765". This boolit feeds well in his AR and shoots 2 inch 100 yard groups from the tripod rest with 1 or 2 fliers in 10 shots opening the groups to 4-5 inches. His next test with this boolit is making sure all GC's are seated flat, square and tight against the boolit base, it's possible some are not. Most testing with this boolit has been with IMR 4350 with both air cooled CWW +2% Sn @ 12 BHN and oven heat treated @ 18 BHN. No to very minimal leading as checked with a bore scope.

Rick

By the way, thanks for letting me know there is more to a boolit than driving bands. Good info to have.

[jbake3]

I have a DPMS LR .308 with the 24" bull barrel. The float tube was tapped incorrectly from the factory for the bipod. They offered to fix it after I realized it, but it became to big of a hassle to send it back via ups. Some kind of ridiculous rules about guns even if it is only an upper. I guess other than that it has been a solid gun. It is a stable platform for long range shooting.

[45 2.1]

By the way, thanks for letting me know there is more to a boolit than driving bands. Good info to have.

Rick, shoot whatever you want. If you think those are the right size and do good, be happy with the results. Semi-autos are different animals than bolt guns, especially when they get pushed hard.

[cbrick]

Rick, shoot whatever you want. If you think those are the right size and do good, be happy with the results. Semi-autos are different animals than bolt guns, especially when they get pushed hard.

Yeah, you keep saying such things and that's about all you EVER say in any of your posts. Highly informative, helpful in the extreme. yeah right. Many times I wonder why you bother to post at all, none of your posts say any more than that. A complete waste of time trying to give you or get info from you. I took the time to post what I have to work with and in return I get your usual useless crappolla.

Why don't you do both of us a favor and put me on your ignore list. If you ever post anything worth ignoring I'll do the same.

Rick