3 Square Deal B’s or 1 XL650

[btroj]

Why are those of you who need to save all this time casting bullets? It would be faster to buy them.

[freebullet]

Three words every progressive loader needs to become familiar with- lock out die.

Funny I load faster on my single stage than I do the progressive. I'm in no hurry. The progressive just saves my arm and shoulder from making so many up/down strokes, and my hand from the pains of extended hand prime sessions.

If I really wanted speed I would order a pallet of ammo, instead of casting, sizing, lubing, & loading. I do this to save money and for fun. I waited till I found a good price for a used progressive, because I can use it for years and get most of my money back when I'm done with it.

[dverna]

I had two SDB's and a 550 when I upgraded. Added a Star, 650 and 1050. Sold the SDB's

If I were you, I would buy the 650. Caliber change overs for the caliber you shoot most do not need a primer system change out. Add a tool head for each complete with powder measure. Add the case feeder and I do not think the bullet feeder will gain you much speed.

One other thing, buy more brass. Load a minimum of 2000 at a time. It makes for fewer change overs. For example, .40 brass is $40/1000 delivered. Not a huge investment to load 5000 up at a time. So you only need to swap out two calibers every load session instead of three calibers.

I do the same thing but use a 1050. My primary calibers are .38, 9mm and .40 - and I have about 5000 .38, 6000 9mm and 6000 .40 cases. I also have 20 primer tubes. I load 2000 at a time. You will miss not having a case feeder on the SDB and that is where the speed comes from.

Don Verna

[Lloyd Smale]

im proably going against the grain here. I used to have 5 square deals set up in specific calibers. I lost them in a fire and now use a 550 and 3 lnls. I miss the square deals. If i had only 3 calibers to load for id go the 3 square deal route. there good little presses and with some practice can be run as fast as a 650 with a case feeder. There short stroke makes them pretty quick. Nice thing to is if something breaks you have two more presses to use or to rob parts from until you get parts from dillon.

[6bg6ga]

im proably going against the grain here. I used to have 5 square deals set up in specific calibers. I lost them in a fire and now use a 550 and 3 lnls. I miss the square deals. If i had only 3 calibers to load for id go the 3 square deal route. there good little presses and with some practice can be run as fast as a 650 with a case feeder. There short stroke makes them pretty quick. Nice thing to is if something breaks you have two more presses to use or to rob parts from until you get parts from dillon.

There is always logic to your posts Lloyd. Makes sense as you put it. If one goes down simply remove parts from another or transfer to a different press. I should have kept the Square Deal I had in 45acp. I love the 650 but it takes time to setup correctly and get quality rounds out.

[jmorris]

Why are those of you who need to save all this time casting bullets? It would be faster to buy them.

My casting and sizing machines can make bullets faster than USPS can ship them, even if someone has what I want in stock.

[warf73]

Why are those of you who need to save all this time casting bullets? It would be faster to buy them.

As of right now casting is cheaper, and I get what I want/need for the 3 guns that are being fed. I will admit that I've been known to buy plated bullets when there on sale(that hasn't happened in while now)mostly for the 40.

[ROGER4314]

A second RL550B would also help and you could swap tool heads between them.

I had a Square Deal press and was impressed with the ingenuity that went into the design. My hands are the size of small hams and the SD simply did NOT work for me! I gave it a new home and the guy who bought it is having a ball! I had 4 changeover die sets which is one factor that I hated. They are expensive and not simple to swap. The swap is not hard.....just not simple. The $80 or so cost was appalling!

I could not recommend the SD if you have hands bigger than a child....snicker.

Flash

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive got real large hands and the only time i have problems is with cases like 32 sw and 380s but it doesnt matter what press im using. If it doesnt have a case and bullet feed i fumble with them. the square deal is no harder to feed small stuff then a 550.

[warf73]

Lloyd,
I'm running a batch of 40's(2k) right now and considering maybe ordering a SD for 357. Which will be the next caliber I need to get caught up on( changing boolit design for competion). Worst case I don't like it and sell it for 85% of new price(seems going rate on ebay atm).

[warf73]

Yesterday morning I sat down with my primer tubes ready to go, 1k bullets and few thousand brass and full powder hopper. I grunted out 520 40S&W's from 9am to 10am.
I've had this 550 for almost 15 years and never sat down and pounded out rounds like this. All I can say is its hard on the shoulders and lower back to just sit there and grab brass, bullets, pull, rotate, repeat and rinse at such a high rate. There would be no way I could produce that many rounds the 2nd hour.

Lloyd,
Can the SDB produce in the 500 range without killing you?

I think a case feeder would make life way easer, may it be on the 550 or a 650.

The XL650 is rated at 600~650 per hour is that with or without a case feeder?

[jmorris]

This is a video of one of mine that will do 1000 in 51 minutes and 20 seconds and you can load primer tubes as you go. Your arm never feels a thing.



It is pretty easy to keep up with that pase with a bullet and case fed 650 manually, like the video I posted of one of mine in #7

[odis]

I own a square deal that I bought in the 80s, I've never used a 550 or a 650. I've also never timed myself and I've always wondered why Dillon rates the production greater with the 550 over the square deal. You put a case in station one and a bullet on top in station 3 pull the handle and a loaded round plops into the hopper. Same procceedure as the 550 except it auto advances. I can see the difference for the 650 with the case feeder but what am I missing with the 550?

[Bonz]

Good Advice - Always Plan For The Future - Buy The Press That Has The Most Stations

[warf73]

Jim,
You have one heck of a setup, how many automated machines do you run in your shop?

[gunoil]

Why are those of you who need to save all this time casting bullets? It would be faster to buy them.

Your jeep cost 100 grand+? Buy xtreme bullets and a 1050 w/cal change kit.

Either way you need a mrbulletfeeder, dillon comes with case feed/& collator if you tell em.

650 with MBF'er & case feed is super fast. Primer size change is a piece of cake.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Gunoil: I'm the one with the Jeep. It is built from scratch and I have 8 years in the project as of now. I still need the body installed but when it is done it will be worth about $125K, or at least that is what I'd have to have to part with it.

I doubt that anyone will give me what it is worth to me. However people pay that kind of money for custom built cars all the time.

I've got hundreds of hours in the build so far and probably another 200 til it is done. My time is worth money (so is everybody else's) My shop rate is $75/hour. That's how I arrived at the price.

You always have to look at the value of your time when doing anything, also you have to look at the fact that your time needs to yield a product that is as good or better than what you can buy. Obviously if you can't buy it then you have to absorb the costs of making it, or having it made.

I have friends who shoot a lot of trap. I asked them who they had loading their ammo and they told me Winchester or Remington. They are busy guys and buy all of their ammo from Walmart. They are also pretty well off to be able to shoot Thousands of rounds a month and not reload. Some of them shoot Winchester AA's which are about $8.00 per box, so you can get an idea of how much they spend. It is nothing for one of these guys to shoot 200 to 400 rounds in one day. They are dedicated!

I can load boxes of 12 ga on three different machines. On one machine it takes 15 minutes, on another it takes 4 minutes and the last machine takes about 1.5 minutes per box.

The material cost per box is the same regardless of which machine I use. It costs me about $3.50 per box in materials to load them. I can buy them for About $5.00 a box right now and usually about $42-45 per 10 box case just before dove season. that's $4.25-4.50/box

So my time is worth $.75-1.50 per box. With the single stage machine I am making $6.00/ hour. With the Spolar it's $54/ hour. On the Spolar it costs me $1.50 per box in labor, so for all intents and purposes it is a wash. I'd probably be better off buying from Walmart. Don't think for one second that the component costs aren't established so that it is only slightly tilted in favor to the reloader.

My shop rate is $75/hour minimum and floats depending on who I'm dealing with. Yes, Arsholes get charged more. So effectively I have to derive at least $21/ hour in Satisfaction or Tactile Gratification in order to justify doing this.

Or I can just say I like doing it. I also can load custom loads with these machines and I don't know if any of you have tried to find 7/8 oz. 12ga loads (International trap and skeet loads with very low recoil) but if you could find them they would be a helluva lot more than $5.00 per box, more like $8-9.00 per box. But they are virtually unobtainable since most all go to shooting teams. I can load those for even less (less shot)

Obviously we all can do better shooting cast boolits in our rifles and handguns simply because the cost of producing them is simply a matter of tooling and labor cost since in most cases the materials are very low cost.

I can load most centerfire cartridges for around .06-.08 per round. The main variable being the amount and initial cost of the powder being used.

So in the end every individual has to decide what he is going to get out of this hobby, and how much he is willing to pay to do it.

None of it is free, but it really is a good idea to figure out what it is costing you. All you have to do is sit down with your little calculator and run the numbers, that way you'll know.

Don't tell your wife.

Randy

[xray30]

It only takes 5-10 minutes max to change a caliber/primer size on a XL650. I much rather use a press that has regular dies, casefeeder and ability to add a bulletfeeder. Not to mention you have the ability to load rifle rounds on it.

[Patrick L]

I can't comment directly on the Dillon machines as I am an RCBS man (nothing against Dillon, I think I'd like to own one actually), but it seems to me that this industry makes an awful big deal about convenience, and how hard it is to screw a freakin' die in and out of a press or adjust a powder measure. I have two RCBS progressives. Honestly one does handle all large primer rounds and the other all small, but only because I have the two. I never would have purchased two for that purpose. I had an original Piggyback (upgraded) and when I decided to go progressive with rifle I bought an Ammomaster Auto due to the fact I liked the RCBS system, They used the same shell plates, etc. just the PB wouldn't handle .30-06 length rds. I load about 12 different calibers between the two.

Like I said I have no direct experience with the Dillon presses, but is it really that hard to change calibers? If I can't do it in under 10 minutes on the RCBS, I'm having a really bad day. And my machines don't have tool heads, I do it old school, screwing those dies in and out. That time includes setting the powder measure. Even if I had to switch the primer feed that might add a minute and a half to the total time.

Am I missing something, or are people really in that much of a hurry?

[6bg6ga]

I suggest that you check out the Dillon products.

Yes, to answer your question people are in a hurry. I know I am. I don't have hours to spend reloading so with the time I do have I make it count. I'm surprised that you posted considering that you own RCBS presses and the thread is about the Dillon SQ deal and the 650 press or to be general all Dillon reloading presses.

The Dillon 650's allow you to change calibers with ease provided you don't switch over from large to small primers or vice versa.