Best Cast Bullet for 8x 57 Mauser

[frnkeore]

Klaus

"do i have an advantage for accuracy and prevent leading if i use a loverin design over any others designs by smokless loads ?"

Most definitely. The two Loverin designs are the most accurate 8x57 cast bullets I've found for milsurp rifles. For HV loads (1900 - 2300+ fps) I put lube in all the lube grooves except the driving band.

Bullet speed highlighted in red = minimum of 175260 RPM and with a scraper groove.

Frank

[UBER7MM]

Klaus,
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Here is a comparison of the Ideal/Lyman 323471 and 323470. The 323470 is currently under production by Lyman. The 323471 is not, but NOE does make a reproduction.
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When I do see Ideal/Lyman 323471s on ebay, they command a premium prices.

[frnkeore]

The NOE near copy of the 323471 is a little different in the nose area. He uses a bore riding section on the nose that is .311/.312 (depending on alloy) and isn't as aerodynamic as the original Lyman design. Still a excellent bullet!

Frank

[Larry Gibson]

Klaus,
.
Here is a comparison of the Ideal/Lyman 323471 and 323470. The 323470 is currently under production by Lyman. The 323471 is not, but NOE does make a reproduction.
.

.
When I do see Ideal/Lyman 323471s on ebay, they command a premium prices.

Excellent mould! Excellent illustration!

Note the large % of bearing surface per bullet length on both bullets. The '470 has about the highest % (68-70%) amount of bearing surface of most any cast bullet. That is one of the reasons it is a very good choice for truly HV as there isn't much of that short stubby nose that can get bent out of concentricity with the bullets center of spin/center of gravity.

Conversely the '471 has a much longer unsupported nose sitting on top of a non essential scraper groove. The narrower part of the scraper groove is totally unsupported and under the severe acceleration of a HV load can collapse or allow the nose to bend to one side. That unbalances the bullet and decreases accuracy. If the scraper groove wasn't there the relatively long unsupported nose would have a lot more "structure" and support at it's base. That would enable the unsupported nose to withstand a higher acceleration w/o collapsing or bending. Frankly, some just fail to comprehend the obvious. However, the '471 is one design that can be used, with the right casting and loading techniques, to push the RPM threshold up quite a bit. The reason is the 55+% amount of bearing surface.

Another cast bullet noted for it's HV ability similar to the 323470 is the 311465 which also has the short stubby nose and a bearing length of 65+%. As I once told an individual; "the devil is in the details." Some can't understand cast bullet design for success at HV and differentiate it from success with other cast bullet designs at 1400 fps or even upwards 2300 fps. If they shot cast bullets above 2400 fps successfully perhaps they'd comprehend?

But Klaus, none of that is relevant to you and your Commission M1888 rifle in 8x57. As I mentioned earlier; either the Lyman 323470 or the NOE version of the Lyman 323471 (if you can't find a Lyman) will do very nicely in your rifle, probably better than any other cast bullet.

Larry Gibson

[Klaus]

Uuuhps , so much response

hi Gent`s

thx again for your replies.
and Larry thx for your great explanations.

i read since a lot of time here in this Forum and was impressed by Nelson Swedes Lee Mould he shows in a Thread about the Gewehr 88. The with it`s long Nose looks like the original Bullet from the 88 Rounds but i miss the Groves here wich containing the necessary lube.The same i miss at the Lee and the Saeco also.

Due to this fact i startet my thread and asking you as experienced Bullet Caster .

The 323470 does not looks like so cool as the other designs but when it is accurate and prevent leading it will be most welcome

Unfortunately the 323471 is not available here in Germany too. So i will look for the 323470 next time.
US Moulds like NOE ( as example) seem to be very good but most expensive to buy for forein people due to shipping costs and tax
As example i have just a deal in Luxemburg and pay 78 Euros plus 10 Euros shipping fee ( 101,89 USD and 13,83 Shipping) for the Lyman 323470.
In Germany the same will be more expensive between 84 Euros and 124 Euros depending on the Dealer.

have a nice Day

Klaus

[Larry Gibson]

Klaus

As far as looking "cool" to me beauty is as beauty does. If it shoots well I could care less about the "cool" factor. However, the 323471 definitely has a "cool" factor and it shoots also. MiHec moulds are made in Europe so I wonder if they have anything similar to either of the Lyman moulds?

Checked MiHec's web sight and didn't see anything catalogued but you might contact them. Otherwise, while expensive on your end, the NOE moulds are very well made. The Lyman 323470 might be worth it in the long run also depending on how much you want to shoot the M1888.

Larry Gibson

[UBER7MM]

Uuuhps , so much response .....
.
The 323470 does not looks like so cool as the other designs but when it is accurate and prevent leading it will be most welcome
.
Unfortunately the 323471 is not available here in Germany to. So i will look for the 323470 next time.
US Moulds like NOE ( as example) seem to be very good but most expensive to buy for forein people due to shipping costs and tax

Klaus,

The 323470 is not as cool as its big brother, but it does shoot well as Larry has explained and moreover, they available from the manufacturer. Boolit molds are expensive, however considering the cost of jacketed commercial bullets and they start looking cheaper. If you consider a boolit mold as a life time purchase then you'd be ahead of the game.

Enjoy: casting, reloading, shooting; generally in that order.

[Klaus]

Hello Larry and Uber7mm,

your are right, the cool / beauty factor care less if the bullet is accurate on the target .But you know about the saying " you eat with your eyes"

I try to avoid to buy jacketed Bullets and cast all my Rounds for .38spl, 45ACP, 44-40, 6,5x55, 8x57 and 45-70 with Lee,Lyman and RCBS Moulds.

The Lyman 470 will become my favorite Mould and i let you know some results next time.

thx for help

Klaus