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Thread: 358 norma mag

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    I am a bargain hound.

    A local shop was going out of business, the owner moved to Montana. He had something like 10-13 boxes of new unprimed Norma brass for the .358 Norma for sale that a customer had ordered in and then chickened out and returned the rifle in the meantime.

    I bought the brass for conversions.

    I never did that.

    I started instead studying the info on the big Norma and just sat on that brass.

    I have not done anything but my plan is to have an ER Shaw made up for my Savage bolt guns and have at it.

    One thing has stymied me ...... I also have a fondness for the same in a .416 Taylor .......

    AND I can't decide which to do first!

    The other fact is that I have been so busy acquiring Savage made (mostly) and a few lower tier custom barrels for the Savage action that the available funds have been going that way instead of towards a pair of Shaws.

    ......... Well, that's my story anyway!

    Three 44s

  2. #22
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by assasinator View Post
    there are a bazillion powders for reduced loads that shoot ANY .358 boolit just fine. I have shot everything I wanted to in my 350 Remington magnum. at low velocities also.
    I have a 35-338 WM that I want to shoot cast in. Not looking for jacketed velocities. Could I safely start at the lower end of the other 35's data to work up loads?
    Lyman's 14th cast bullet manual (if I recall correctly) shows two loads for cast in the 358NM, both use 14 or 15 gr Unique.
    Don't want no one to git hurt, but if you're gonna have a wreck, I wanna watch.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Mine was a 1917 Erfurt 98 Mauser that was originally rebarreled to 35 improved Whelan. I had it converted to 358 Norma Magnum. two of my brothers and I traded it back and forth over the years until it finally slipped Away. With reduced loads and Pistol bullets it worked great on turkeys, with 250 grain Speer soft point it worked great on Elk. I only had 20 Factory Norma cartridges and I held on to those for someday. I was given two boxes of Speer dwm 7mm Remington Magnum shells and not being scared I fired those in the 358 to make brass which to my surprise worked perfectly. I honestly cannot think of a better belted Magnum cartridge than the 358 Norma Magnum.

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  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    I am still sitting on most of my Norma brass as in the prior post.

    A friend had a barreled Mod 70 pre 64 rebarreled in 7mm Rem Mag that I bought from him right after my earlier post but the friend got some of my brass in the deal.

    His contention was that a controlled feed was the best choice for a cartridge like the 358 Norma.

    While the .358 Win is more optimum for cast than a Whelen, The later certainly works. This I am sure of because I have a 338-06 and they are happy with cast.

    The Lyman cast book listed the 338 Win Mag as a very stable cast platform. Why would a 358 Norma not be fairly do able? There is a difference between an optimum cast platform and a do able rifle made more versatile such as a 358Norma.

    My friend kept his Norma and sold me his other pre 64 Win 70 instead because he likes it not only for it’s effect on game but also since it is so versatile .... he loves to shoot word pistol bullets out of it as well. I have to talk to him about cast boolits but he thinks they are some sort of evil. Oh Well!

    By the way, last fall he tagged a major black bear with it. In previous years he clipped bears with it and was not happy with the bullet performance. This latest bear hunt went differently. He shot this one with a tipped Barnes bullet, not the heaviest of theirs either and it went down in a pile. He is on cloud nine over that combo now.

    Best regards

    Three44s
    Last edited by Three44s; 02-07-2018 at 06:19 AM.

  5. #25
    Boolit Mold
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    Three44s,
    I have Lyman's cast 4th edition; they also list some cast loads in their 48th and 49th editions of their reloading manuals. Would I be safe starting with low-end loads for the 338 - same weight bullet, and work up slow, using the standard cautions? I know it can be playing with explosions to start extrapolating load data from one cartridge to another.
    Thanks in advance
    Don't want no one to git hurt, but if you're gonna have a wreck, I wanna watch.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
    white eagle's Avatar
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    I think it is one of the best there is
    I have wanted a Norma for a long time
    why slow it down and handicap it to shoot cast
    like others have said there are better cast shooters out there
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    calm seas,

    The 338 Win Mag and the 358 Norma have very similar case capacities and shapes. The Norma cartridge has a larger bore size. Everything else being equal, the Norma should operate at a lower pressure than the Winchester cartridge with same powder at a given charge and similar bullet.

    White Eagle makes a good point that the Norma is not an “ideal” cast boolit cartridge. I don’t think that is the point. Lots of cartridges are not “ideal” for cast but still they serve yeomen’s duty with cast.

    A great example is the .243 Win.

    I personally have not tried my rifles in that cartridge with cast but it is well thought of by a number of members in that use. One would have a difficult time convincing many shooters that turning a 243 into a cast shooter is an “efficient shooter”. That is if only velocity is the prime criterion.

    Another criterion an owner of a significant caliber such as the 358 Norma may well be concerned could be flexibility.

    Three44s

  8. #28
    Boolit Mold
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    Another criterion an owner of a significant caliber such as the 358 Norma may well be concerned could be flexibility.

    And there, three44s, you stepped right in it. I have the 35-338 in hand. I would like something that can drop a Sitka Blacktail here in Alaska without dismembering it, yet be able to put a few in the magazine in case a brownie wishes to challenge my claim on the deer, or use me as a snack.
    I use 8 gr of Unique under a 230 gr cast in my 454 pistols for plinking...a 360 gr cast WFNGC over 24 gr of H110 for 'serious' bear or moose medicine.
    Flexibility is the beauty of handloading.
    Thanks for confirming my suspicion that the 35-338 SHOULD have lower pressure than the 338WM using identical powder charges and bullets.
    Don't want no one to git hurt, but if you're gonna have a wreck, I wanna watch.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
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    I must have forgotten to tell my 358NM that it is not ideal with cast boolits. I shoot 30 gr of 4759 and a 200gr gc boolit into about 1 1/2" @ 100yds at 1988 ave fps. It is a real pussycat to shoot. It's a tang safety Ruger 77 with a 22" Douglas that is a duplicate taper to fit the original 77 stock. Love that old gun but with 250gr j bullets @ 2800 it may be too much for my new shoulder replacement.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it

  10. #30
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    murf205,

    That is indeed very fine performance! It is truely a shame that Hodgdons chose to discontinue SR4759.

    A while back I acquired a pre 64 Win model 70 that had been rebarreled to a stainless Shillen chambered in 7mm Rem Mag. It wears a single stage Canjar trigger but is not presently stocked.

    The thought is that as a controlled feed action it would be a great one to go with a 358 Norma chambered barrel.

    I am a fan of the 7mm Rem Mag and will want to test run it that way and keep it around but have a 358 Norma for it as well.

    Best regards

    Three44s

  11. #31
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
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    My 358 NM was a 7mm Rem at birth, but it is an '83 model and Ruger was buying barrels from anybody who could make one back then and it gave me fits trying to make the $%^& shoot accurately. Finally, I had the rifle rebarreled to a 22" Douglas in 350 Rem Mag and it was a pretty good shooter but nothing you wanted to crow about. One day, while I was in Jimmy McCollugh's shop, wasting his time, he mentioned that he had a 358 Norma reamer. That's all it took and the old Ruger came alive with the new chambering. Jimmy is one of the best riflesmiths in this country and the rifle now shoots moa(well almost) with everything I feed it. I just hope my new artificial shoulder joint can stand the pounding. It will be fed a lot of cast boolits in the future at somewhat slower speeds since we are fresh out of grizzly bears here in Alabama!
    Last edited by murf205; 03-08-2018 at 10:51 PM.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it

  12. #32
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Substitute a 158gr boolit for that 200gr with the same load in honor of that new shoulder! Fun shooting.

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  13. #33
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
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    That is a good idea since I have had this old tang safety Ruger for almost 35 yrs, it would be hard to part with it, but a 358 Win dedicated cast boolit rifle would be a lot more practical. I'm only 2 1/2 weeks out of surgery, so still a bit tender on the shoulder. 22 LR time for a while.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it

  14. #34
    Boolit Master rmcc's Avatar
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    The 358 NM is a GREAT cartridge!!! Getting into 375 H&H performance in my opinion. The biggest problem with 358 Norma not catching on here, again in my opinion, is that it was brought out in TOO light of rifles!! Look at the Kricos., Shults & Larson, and Husquavarna rifles that were introduced with this caliber. I shot one of the early Kricos and still have nightmares about it!! If you have a Model 70 action and a contour 5 barrel, you are well on your way to having one of the most versatile rifles you could want!!

    rmcc

  15. #35
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	216032Mine is a 77R Ruger from '83. It is just right to carry at around 8 lbs with a 3x9x42 Kahles scope. The pad on these old red pad guns is not known to be very soft and the age seems to harden them as well. It feeds slick as snot and will shoot 1 to 1 1/2" groups @100 yds with a 250 gr Nosler partition around 2750 to 2800fps. I had to beat my Alaska friends off of it. They love the tang safety 77's and especially 358 Normas.
    Last edited by murf205; 03-08-2018 at 10:49 PM.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it

  16. #36
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murf205 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	216031Click image for larger version. 

Name:	350 Ruger 77 014 (640x480).jpg 
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ID:	216032Mine is a 77R Ruger from '83. It is just right to carry at around 8 lbs with a 3x9x42 Kahles scope. The pad on these old red pad guns is not known to be very soft and the age seems to harden them as well. It feeds slick as snot and will shoot 1 to 1 1/2" groups @100 yds with a 250 gr Nosler partition around 2750 to 2800fps. I had to beat my Alaska friends off of it. They love the tang safety 77's and especially 358 Normas.
    That is very nice all around.

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  17. #37
    Boolit Master
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    I will second that “nice” comment!

    As a lefty shooting righty rifles all my adult life, the safety on the tang is a very useful location for them.

    I bought two tang safety model 77’s back in 1976 & 1977, a Liberty 77V in 243 Win. and a post or non- Liberty model sporter in 270 Win.

    The Liberty 77V had the good barrel and the 270 didn’t. The 270 got traded for a Browning A-bolt II in 25-06 that shoots lights out while the 77V has earned honored status. It still shoots lights out as well. Not a half MOA, but a 1/4 MOA gun!

    Three44s

  18. #38
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
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    Ruger was, and still is, noted for making limited runs of unusual calibers, so I wonder why they never chambered a run of 358 NM rifles. As you can tell by the dummy round in the pic I made for Jimmy McCollough as a guide for the throat, there is plenty of room for it. A 77 MKII would be a sure hit IMHO if they made a small run of them. Gill, are you listening???
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it

  19. #39
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    IMO if Remington had bought rights to the .308 & .358 Norma magnums and chambered them in the model 721 they would be standards today.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by murf205 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	216031Click image for larger version. 

Name:	350 Ruger 77 014 (640x480).jpg 
Views:	12 
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ID:	216032Mine is a 77R Ruger from '83. It is just right to carry at around 8 lbs with a 3x9x42 Kahles scope. The pad on these old red pad guns is not known to be very soft and the age seems to harden them as well. It feeds slick as snot and will shoot 1 to 1 1/2" groups @100 yds with a 250 gr Nosler partition around 2750 to 2800fps. I had to beat my Alaska friends off of it. They love the tang safety 77's and especially 358 Normas.
    Is it a rebarrel or rechamber?
    Founder of the Single Shot section.

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