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Thread: Duplexing WC860

  1. #81
    Boolit Master
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    Curator -

    Howdy !

    Have you tried IMR7828 / 7828SC outright, on its own; in your 6.5 X 55 ?


    With regards,
    357Mag

  2. #82
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
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    Should work. My Swede likes a straight load of Retumbo.

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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by iplaywithnoshoes View Post
    Right, you don't want the two to mix in any way. Are you keeping the compression with a crimp or jamming the bullet into the lands? Is this with H50BMG? I am not asking for exact kicker weights.
    After the kicker use a small piece of toilet paper pushed in with a pencil or rod then add the primary.
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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonp View Post
    After the kicker use a small piece of toilet paper pushed in with a pencil or rod then add the primary.
    Even with that, unless you are fully filling the cartridge to at least the base of the bullet, there's still a chance that the powders could mingle if subjected to enough shaking.
    When you fill out your income tax forms at the end of the year, look and see how much money you have given the
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    stuff FOR you or TO you this year? I tend to believe the latter...

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  5. #85
    I seems likely that just the act of pouring the main charge will displace some of the kicker charge if the latter is small enough. This probably pushes the kicker off to the sides so that the main powder is technically ignited before the faster stuff. I have a feeling that the toilet paper may slow ignition a little bit. Probably the best way to prevent mixing is to use a wad that is coarse/permeable enough to allow ignition between the two powders but fine enough not to allow them to mix. This should like like a fine mesh. With this method, if the mesh wad is sized correctly, you don't even need compression I think.

    This is just an idea though.

    shoe

  6. #86
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    I've duplexed WC860 in several chamberings. Also loads with various other powders over the years.

    I've reached a personal conclusion, that if the powders get slightly mixed when the charges are dropped for compressed loads, it doesn't hurt anything as far as I can tell. Both powders will ignite, both will push the projectile, and the kicker will still clear the fouling.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by iplaywithnoshoes View Post
    I seems likely that just the act of pouring the main charge will displace some of the kicker charge if the latter is small enough. This probably pushes the kicker off to the sides so that the main powder is technically ignited before the faster stuff. I have a feeling that the toilet paper may slow ignition a little bit. Probably the best way to prevent mixing is to use a wad that is coarse/permeable enough to allow ignition between the two powders but fine enough not to allow them to mix. This should like like a fine mesh. With this method, if the mesh wad is sized correctly, you don't even need compression I think.

    This is just an idea though.

    shoe

    When I chose to experiment with duplex charges, I tamped down the fast powder before adding the slower powder. As such, a 6 or 7 stage press would be ideal.
    1. Resize / deprive / prime
    2. Drop fast powder
    3. Tamp down fast powder
    4. Drop slow powder
    5. Seat bullet / compress fast powder
    6. Crimp bullet

    If you don't have a Redding T-7, then you have to make do and run it though two cycles.
    Cycle 1:
    1. Resize / deprime / prime
    2. Drop fast powder
    3. Tamp fast powder
    Cycle 2:
    1. Drop slow powder
    2. Seat bullet / compress fast powder
    3. Crimp bullet

    Of course, I'm only doing this for rounds like .45-70, so it's not like I'm loading a lot of rounds this way.
    When you fill out your income tax forms at the end of the year, look and see how much money you have given the
    government throughout the year. Then, take a moment to ponder -- has the government done $X worth of
    stuff FOR you or TO you this year? I tend to believe the latter...

    Si vis pacem, para bellum -- If you want peace, prepare for war

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  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyVet1959 View Post
    When I chose to experiment with duplex charges, I tamped down the fast powder before adding the slower powder. As such, a 6 or 7 stage press would be ideal.
    1. Resize / deprive / prime
    2. Drop fast powder
    3. Tamp down fast powder
    4. Drop slow powder
    5. Seat bullet / compress fast powder
    6. Crimp bullet

    If you don't have a Redding T-7, then you have to make do and run it though two cycles.
    Cycle 1:
    1. Resize / deprime / prime
    2. Drop fast powder
    3. Tamp fast powder
    Cycle 2:
    1. Drop slow powder
    2. Seat bullet / compress fast powder
    3. Crimp bullet

    Of course, I'm only doing this for rounds like .45-70, so it's not like I'm loading a lot of rounds this way.
    True, I'll have to wait awhile for a progressive setup but I can adapt this to my little hand press. What kind of velocities were you getting with WC860 when you first observed a really clean burn and with what bullet weights? I just want to get an idea of recoil and bullet/lube hardness required. I will also be loading this for .45-70.

    shoe

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by iplaywithnoshoes View Post
    True, I'll have to wait awhile for a progressive setup but I can adapt this to my little hand press. What kind of velocities were you getting with WC860 when you first observed a really clean burn and with what bullet weights? I just want to get an idea of recoil and bullet/lube hardness required. I will also be loading this for .45-70.
    I can't seem to find any of my loading data for those experiments, but I seem to remember it being a couple of grains of fast powder tamped down and then a case full of the cannon powder on top of it with a 405gr cast bullet.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...0-in-the-45-70

    From what I remember, it's not possible to put enough of the .50BMG or 20mm powders in a .45-70 case for it to exceed allowable pressure in modern firearms. Someone ran it though Quickload, but I don't remember the results. With a duplex load, you're just trying to create a "bigger primer" since it normally requires the larger arsenal primers in the .50BMG and such rifles. I think the usual recommendation is to start at 1gr, reducing your main powder by the identical amount and continue ramping it up until it burns clean.
    When you fill out your income tax forms at the end of the year, look and see how much money you have given the
    government throughout the year. Then, take a moment to ponder -- has the government done $X worth of
    stuff FOR you or TO you this year? I tend to believe the latter...

    Si vis pacem, para bellum -- If you want peace, prepare for war

    "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." -- Barry Goldwater

    Tag Line


  10. #90
    Thanks to a couple knowledgeable and experienced members on this forum, I have successfully come to close to the sweet spot of a duplex of H4198 and H50BMG. Clean burn and noticeable jump in recoil with no pressure signs. Time to buy a chronograph to tune it, and maybe find some surplus powder.

    shoe

  11. #91
    Boolit Master
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    Anyone else tried 860 in the .222 Rem. with cast?
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    1. Those who know Jesus Christ is both Creator and Sovereign Lord.

    2. Those fixin' to know...

  12. #92
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    Have not done 860 with .222; have done .223 with both WC860 or WC872 duplexed. Little difference between Wc860 and WC872 powder. You may want to take a look at some of the data I posted at: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...92s&highlight=

    or

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-But&highlight
    Last edited by MUSTANG; 03-20-2017 at 11:01 PM.
    Mustang

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check