Titan ReloadingRotoMetals2Graf & SonsADvertise here
Inline FabricationStainLess Steel MediaLee Precision

Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567
Results 121 to 139 of 139

Thread: Something I learned last weekend, about temp

  1. #121
    Boolit Master popper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    6,930
    Stick works fine to cut but how hard is it on an Al. mould and how square is the base? If the sprue is hard enough to require a 'whack' it tends to raise the plate when cutting and is hard on the corner of the mould.
    Whatever!

  2. #122
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    236
    quiettime,

    I am new for casting as well (I use a propane Camping stove and Lee molds) and have allways a wrinkle Problem no matter what I do to get the lead hot and as well the mold.

    I found the proper pouring technique is crucial. I live in an 220Volt Country as well and was thinking in getting the Lee 220 V furnace as well in order to get rid of the wrinkles. But I can live witht the wrinkled bullets.

    What did you do to get rid of wrinkled bullets?

  3. #123
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    986
    Quote Originally Posted by AJG View Post
    quiettime,

    I am new for casting as well (I use a propane Camping stove and Lee molds) and have allways a wrinkle Problem no matter what I do to get the lead hot and as well the mold.

    I found the proper pouring technique is crucial. I live in an 220Volt Country as well and was thinking in getting the Lee 220 V furnace as well in order to get rid of the wrinkles. But I can live witht the wrinkled bullets.

    What did you do to get rid of wrinkled bullets?
    Cleaned the daylights out of them and used a propane torch to get them up to temp.
    Go easy on the torch though and the sprue plate may need a bit more heat than the mold.
    Lead bullets Matter

    There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. - Will Rodgers

  4. #124
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    2
    I just joined here to say thank you for all the helpful information here In This post. Been lurking a while and reading a lot.

  5. #125
    Boolit Man

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Salem WV
    Posts
    87
    Welcome to the forum STIHL, hope you pick up a lot of good info. Keep shooting, Jim

  6. #126
    Boolit Man fivefang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Nye County
    Posts
    98
    Gear, that's a excellent post, I've been casting since '55, 38/40 win. '73, in the fowling shot a decade ago or so "Kitty-Litter" was often mentioned, has that lost it's appeal? nobody seems to mention it in Quick Posts, Fivefang

  7. #127
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Somewhere in the woods of Central Oklahoma
    Posts
    470
    Quote Originally Posted by geargnasher View Post
    "Frosting" is an effect caused by two things in combination: The presence of antimony in the mix, and a very hot mould.

    The temperature of the metal going into the mould has zero to do with whether or not the boolit surfaces will have the "frosted" appearance, that is 100% a function of mould block temperature and cooling rate, or rather the SLOW cooling rate, of the alloy. The more slowly an antimonial alloy cools, the more time the antimony dendrite crystals have to form lattices, and the appearance of a textured surface becomes present.

    For example, I can literally pour 800-degree wheel-weight metal into a 200-degree mould and get shiny, wrinkled boolits with rounded edges. I can also pour 650-degree wheel weight metal into a 450-degree mould and make boolits that are so frosted and undersized that they appear as rough and dull as freshly-broken cast iron, or appear as if they were sand blasted. The difference is the temperature of the MOULD, not the alloy. And, of course, the presence of some antimony in the mix. Tin/lead alloy or pure lead always casts fairly shiny, regardless of mould temperature or alloy temperature.

    The general rule for most of the ternary (lead, antimony, tin) alloys that we scrounge up for making boolits is to run the pot below 750 degrees F., or really about 100-150 degrees hotter than the fully-liquid point, and to preheat the moulds somehow (dip a corner in the melt for a while, set across top of pot for a few minutes, or improvise a "mould oven" using a hot plate and metal box) so they come up to casting temperature faster or start out at casting temperature. THEN, as you cast, maintain a pace that is brisk enough to keep the mould hot enough for good fillout.

    Casting good boolits is all about consistency. Constant pot temperature is important, this is what your thermostat and thermometer are for. Constant mould temperature is even more important, and that is controlled simply by adjusting the timing of the various pouring, waiting for sprue to set, cutting, opening, dumping, closing, and refilling operations. Casting boolits is like driving a car on the highway, you have to constantly make slight corrections to steering, throttle, brake, etc. and watch your mirrors, the road, anticipate hills and valleys to keep the speed consistent and in the "zone" that you want to be.

    You'll have to experiment with timing operations and pouring stream adjustment, technique, sprue puddle size, etc. while watching for frosting, rounded edges, filled bases, air bubbles/voids in the bases, wrinkles, shiny spots, frosted bands/shiny noses, sprue flashover time to give yourself clues about what is working and not working with a particular mould, alloy, and atmospheric condition.



    Here's a quick and dirty method that works every time. Turn on the pot and start melting your alloy. Stir it with a spoon as soon as it starts to get mushy and watch the thermometer. Once the metal thins out like thin porridge, keep a close eye on temperature, it should remain constant as the phase changes. Once the last bits of grainy metal go away, the temperature should start to rise again (the metal is past the phase platau). Record the phase plateau temperature and add, say, 150F to it. Allow the alloy to reach this temperature and adjust the pot to maintain it. Spoon in a layer of pine sawdust on top of the melt and stir the alloy gently to flux and reduce oxides. Skim if you want, or not. Dip a corner of your mould down int he metal and hold it there until the alloy no longer sticks to the blocks when you withdraw it, this could take anywhere from 30 seconds to two minutes. Dip the tip of the sprue plate in the alloy too, for about ten seconds, then close the mould and start casting. The mould should suck the pot temperature down 50 or so degrees depending on the size of the mould. Fill, cut, and dump the first few castings quickly and glance at the boolits. If shiny and wrinkled, keep casting culls as fast as you can until they start to fill out and get an even, satin frost all over. From this point on, you can play with the timing and sprue puddle size to control mould block and sprue plate temperature to keep the mould temperature and boolit quality even from nose to tip.

    This works with any alloy, any pot, any pouring technique, and any mould (except non-antimony alloys won't frost, you just look for sharp edges and good fillout with those) and any weather. Don't forget to glance at the pot temperature once in a while and make sure it stays 100-150 above the fully-liquid point that you recorded first thing. It's all up to mould temperature and technique after that, and trust me, quit dinking around with pot temperature, it is not going to do you any good.

    One more thing, to emphasize what MT Gianni wrote, IF your thermometer is off even 200 degrees, if you do as I described above, it won't matter because you only want to obtain an alloy temperature that is a certain amount above fully liquidus with ANY alloy, and your thermometer is good enough to give you that valuable reference point even if it is not giving you an exactly accurate temperature reading.

    Gear
    Gear, I want to thank you for taking the time to write this out. I keep a link to this thread and to Goodsteel's "Consistency Applied" on my desktop and any time things get quiet around the house I read them. I glean something new each time. As a newbie I find your information extremely helpful.
    Chris

  8. #128
    Boolit Master

    Soundguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    N Central Florida
    Posts
    818
    Nice write-up!

  9. #129
    Boolit Master bbogue1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Lampasas, Texas
    Posts
    186
    Check out the Etekcity Lasergrip 1080 Non-contact Digital Laser Infrared Thermometer -58℉~1022℉ for $19 on Amazon.


  10. #130
    Boolit Master



    snuffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Oshkosh Wi.
    Posts
    1,726
    Quote Originally Posted by bbogue1 View Post
    Check out the Etekcity Lasergrip 1080 Non-contact Digital Laser Infrared Thermometer -58℉~1022℉ for $19 on Amazon.
    The laser temp thermometers like the above, don't work well when shined on the surface of freshly fluxed "shiny alloy. The laser bounces, is reflected, by the mirror like surface of the lead. Gives a false reading.

    I too have one of the H.F. el-cheapo laser temp dohickies, when I use mine I drop a steel nut into the lead to give a black target for the laser.

    I really don't need it much, my pot is controlled by my pid, which gives me constant temp readings. I've tested the pid, I trust it's readings.
    He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog.
    You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart.
    You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion."

    “At the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat”--Theodore Roosevelt

  11. #131
    Infrared units do not work for casting (I spent money before I found out they don't work).
    The lead is too reflective and the "beam" bounces off.
    Read post #4 >> HERE <<, and follow his link.

  12. #132
    I wasn't going to post in this thread, as it's chock full of great information, and I have more failure stories than I do good advise.....
    But... that being said, I've watched this fellows technique with regard to timing and tapping of the mould.
    In my (novice) opinion, this guy is worth watching:
    https://youtu.be/IBkMRhB6RqM

  13. #133
    Boolit Master Phlier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    St. George, Utah
    Posts
    241
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob in St. Louis View Post
    I wasn't going to post in this thread, as it's chock full of great information, and I have more failure stories than I do good advise.....
    But... that being said, I've watched this fellows technique with regard to timing and tapping of the mould.
    In my (novice) opinion, this guy is worth watching:
    https://youtu.be/IBkMRhB6RqM
    I really enjoy FortuneCookie45LC's videos. Great guy.
    "Things sure are a lot more like the way they are now than they used to be." --Yogi Berra

  14. #134
    Thanks, glad you like it.
    Yea, he's pretty cool and very knowledgeable.

  15. #135
    Boolit Master Kent Fowler's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Between Hondo and Bandera
    Posts
    303
    Quote Originally Posted by geargnasher View Post
    "Frosting" is an effect caused by two things in combination: The presence of antimony in the mix, and a very hot mould.

    The temperature of the metal going into the mould has zero to do with whether or not the boolit surfaces will have the "frosted" appearance, that is 100% a function of mould block temperature and cooling rate, or rather the SLOW cooling rate, of the alloy. The more slowly an antimonial alloy cools, the more time the antimony dendrite crystals have to form lattices, and the appearance of a textured surface becomes present.

    For example, I can literally pour 800-degree wheel-weight metal into a 200-degree mould and get shiny, wrinkled boolits with rounded edges. I can also pour 650-degree wheel weight metal into a 450-degree mould and make boolits that are so frosted and undersized that they appear as rough and dull as freshly-broken cast iron, or appear as if they were sand blasted. The difference is the temperature of the MOULD, not the alloy. And, of course, the presence of some antimony in the mix. Tin/lead alloy or pure lead always casts fairly shiny, regardless of mould temperature or alloy temperature.

    The general rule for most of the ternary (lead, antimony, tin) alloys that we scrounge up for making boolits is to run the pot below 750 degrees F., or really about 100-150 degrees hotter than the fully-liquid point, and to preheat the moulds somehow (dip a corner in the melt for a while, set across top of pot for a few minutes, or improvise a "mould oven" using a hot plate and metal box) so they come up to casting temperature faster or start out at casting temperature. THEN, as you cast, maintain a pace that is brisk enough to keep the mould hot enough for good fillout.

    Casting good boolits is all about consistency. Constant pot temperature is important, this is what your thermostat and thermometer are for. Constant mould temperature is even more important, and that is controlled simply by adjusting the timing of the various pouring, waiting for sprue to set, cutting, opening, dumping, closing, and refilling operations. Casting boolits is like driving a car on the highway, you have to constantly make slight corrections to steering, throttle, brake, etc. and watch your mirrors, the road, anticipate hills and valleys to keep the speed consistent and in the "zone" that you want to be.

    You'll have to experiment with timing operations and pouring stream adjustment, technique, sprue puddle size, etc. while watching for frosting, rounded edges, filled bases, air bubbles/voids in the bases, wrinkles, shiny spots, frosted bands/shiny noses, sprue flashover time to give yourself clues about what is working and not working with a particular mould, alloy, and atmospheric condition.



    Here's a quick and dirty method that works every time. Turn on the pot and start melting your alloy. Stir it with a spoon as soon as it starts to get mushy and watch the thermometer. Once the metal thins out like thin porridge, keep a close eye on temperature, it should remain constant as the phase changes. Once the last bits of grainy metal go away, the temperature should start to rise again (the metal is past the phase platau). Record the phase plateau temperature and add, say, 150F to it. Allow the alloy to reach this temperature and adjust the pot to maintain it. Spoon in a layer of pine sawdust on top of the melt and stir the alloy gently to flux and reduce oxides. Skim if you want, or not. Dip a corner of your mould down int he metal and hold it there until the alloy no longer sticks to the blocks when you withdraw it, this could take anywhere from 30 seconds to two minutes. Dip the tip of the sprue plate in the alloy too, for about ten seconds, then close the mould and start casting. The mould should suck the pot temperature down 50 or so degrees depending on the size of the mould. Fill, cut, and dump the first few castings quickly and glance at the boolits. If shiny and wrinkled, keep casting culls as fast as you can until they start to fill out and get an even, satin frost all over. From this point on, you can play with the timing and sprue puddle size to control mould block and sprue plate temperature to keep the mould temperature and boolit quality even from nose to tip.

    This works with any alloy, any pot, any pouring technique, and any mould (except non-antimony alloys won't frost, you just look for sharp edges and good fillout with those) and any weather. Don't forget to glance at the pot temperature once in a while and make sure it stays 100-150 above the fully-liquid point that you recorded first thing. It's all up to mould temperature and technique after that, and trust me, quit dinking around with pot temperature, it is not going to do you any good.

    One more thing, to emphasize what MT Gianni wrote, IF your thermometer is off even 200 degrees, if you do as I described above, it won't matter because you only want to obtain an alloy temperature that is a certain amount above fully liquidus with ANY alloy, and your thermometer is good enough to give you that valuable reference point even if it is not giving you an exactly accurate temperature reading.

    Gear
    This post from Gear ought to have it's own separate sticky and be required reading for beginning casters, before they ever fire up their first pot of alloy. I hadn't cast in a lot of years, until last weekend when my SOL wanted to learn about the craft. I was using two Ideal iron molds and fell into the trap of raising the pot temp until I got "good" bullets. Common sense took over after I had raised the PID temp to 810* in order to cure the wrinkles. Shut the operation down and started perusing the stickies and found Gears post most excellent treatise on mold temperature. Bought a hot plate the next morning and preheated the mold to 325*. Started casting and all bullets were perfect. The knowledge existing on Cast Boolits is phenomenal. Thanks, Gear
    T

  16. #136
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    West Texas
    Posts
    126
    good job. good post

  17. #137
    I have been using Tel-Tru thermometers for 5 years.They last longer and stay accurate.Usually cheaper then the competiton too.

  18. #138
    Boolit Master Bazoo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Cecilia, Kentucky
    Posts
    922
    I too have been blessed by Gear's post. Thank you. Thanks to the OP and others too.

  19. #139
    Boolit Master


    mold maker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Piedmont (Conover) NC
    Posts
    4,813
    Personal knowledge of facts and techniques, translated into simple terms, presented free.
    Thanks GEAR
    Information not shared. is wasted.

Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check