Marlin 1895 Cowboy vs. Winchester/Miroku 1886

[jmort]

The only way to rationalize Marlin over Winchester is price.

[bigted]

was just on gunstroker ... where have all the 1895 cowboys gone anyway? at ANY price? I have a good one but goodness ... I cant see em anywhere now...today.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have an 1895 CB It was made in 2005 and was rough as a cobb when I got it. I took it apart before I even shot it and deburred and polished every single part inside that gun and now it runs beautifully.

However,,,it is way too light to be a .45-70 at 7lbs 2oz, and even with the large Pachmayer Recoil pad it is a lively gun to shoot even with 300 gr boolits and light loads. I redid the wood on the gun as well and plan on adding about 2 lbs. of lead in the buttstock to tame it down.

I plan on shooting the gun mostly in Cowboy Silhouette matches and as a result I have to be able to shoot 40 shots in about 1.5 hours twice in one morning. The gun needs to be able to absorb more of the recoil in order to do this and actually do good in the shoots.

Mine currently has a Williams receiver sight on it but it is going to get changed out for a Lyman 66LA as soon as I get around to it. I have the sight, just a matter of sitting down with it. I think I'll have to Drill and tap the reciver side for the sight as I don't think my gun got that from the factory. Some do, some don't. My 1894 CB in .44 Magnum didn't have the holes either, but other Marlins I have owned did have the holes.

The Marlin guns all suffer from something the Winchesters don't, and that is the amount of hand work that gets put into each gun. The Marlins get very little and it shows. There is considerably more "fitting" required on an 1886, and that is why they cost twice as much as a Marlin.

I personally like the Marlin rifles better than Winchesters,,, Just my opinion,,, but with a couple of hours work the Marlins can be made to run as smooth or smoother than the Winchesters. All of mine run like they are loaded with whale oil, however they are almost dry.

I'm not bragging here either, this job simply is not that hard to do. All it takes is the instructions off Leverguns.com and some patience.

If you can work Sand Paper and a file you can do it too. It really isn't that hard.

The main reason why I like the Marlins is because of the low initial cost and the ease that they can be transformed into something well in excess of where they start.

goto Turnbull's Website and see the Marlin Gallery. It is proof positive that Marlins can be every bit as significant as Winchesters.

Marlin had a Custom Shop back in the day and they turned out rifles every bit as ornate as Winchester did. Too bad they stopped!

Randy

[MtGun44]

Have both. My Win is a PITA due to the stupid redesign of the entire firing
system - hollow firing pin with a plunger lock internally, lightened and rebounding
hammer. Misfires were very common until I did a LOT of modifications to the
firing pin and hammer strut, and reset the rebound to not rebound all the
way to where the thumb safety would work. Works OK now.

Marlin is perfect. Accurate, reliable; I dislike the stupid crossbolt safety and
it got knocked on once and cost me a really nice impala. Now a small
o-ring prevents a repeat. I lightened the trigger pull and it is perfect now.

Also the Win has NO throat, will only chamber the Rem 405 which is a
two diameter bullet. Win is BEAUTIFULLY MADE but the idiot-lawyer
redesigns have nearly ruined it.

Bill

[Terrence Clarke]

I have the Winchester 94 and the marlin xlr in 30-30,both shoot good with cast bullets, however the 94 needs .310 bullets to shoot well but the xlr needs .312

[Freischütz]

When they came out in 1972 I purchased a New Model Marlin. My only disappointment was that the action severely limited overall cartridge length.

[451whitworth]

Although I like Marlins alot (anything pre cross bolt safety) my two Browning 1886's are on a different level.

[MtGun44]

Browning 1886s are in no way comparable to the new Win 1886s. The Brownings kept all the
original JB designed firing system parts and work like a JB design - flawlessly.

The whole firing system of the Miroku Win 1886s (well, at least my Extra Lite) has
been totally bast**dized to put in the tang safety, rebounding hammer and firing pin
internal lock and they have seriously screwed it up.

Bill

[Trinidad Bill]

no disrespect intended ... but... I think I may have just blown a chunk or two in my mouth looking at such a beauty adorned with such a "thing".

... ... ... ...

This ^^^^^^

[Trinidad Bill]

I have several 45-70 Marlins, which I love. I also have a Browning 1886 which is on a whole different level and I adore it!

However breaking down and working with the internals of a Marlin is much easier!

[Lunarphase]

Dang, I like my Marlins over my Winchesters.

[Enyaw]

When people rave about the Jap Winchester(I have the take down octagon barrel version) I wonder if they have chambers that have "throats". Mine shoots well enough most of the time,doesn't like shorter bullets for consistancy, but has some quirps. One quirp is it has no throat to the chamber.

I wonder how many of the Miroku rifles in the 1886 model have "no throat" to the chamber. I read somewhere on this site that others have the rifles(Miroku) in "86" and "95" models with no throat.

Never heard of or seen a Marlin with no throat and that may be why they shoot better than the Miroku "86" Winchester.

My "Miroku 86" has the proverbial danged rebounding hammer defected engineering in that it has light pecks on the primers resulting in misfires. It fires Federal primers consistantly so I'm glad I'm a reloader and can choose primers(Federal) although it can be a help in finding good loads being able to use a variety of primers.

Anywhooooo......anyone know if Browning parts can be used to get rid of the Winchester rebounding hammer? Anyone know if a 45/70 Miroku chamber can be reamed to 45/90 and actually have a throat?

I just fired(plinking) a hundred rounds of 292gr. Lyman moulded bullets in "pure lead" at 1,200 FPS loads with Trail Boss powder and experienced very little leading. I did experience a shot now and then going a good ways off target. Could be me but.....I thunk it may be the short bullet entering cock-eyed into the rifling and going thru cock-eyed and destabilizing off it's axis and yawing badly......because of "no throat" and the bullet not entering the rifling straight on. Jacketed bullets shoot better(more consistantly).

Anywhoooo.......the Marlin may not have the ole feel and look of the original Marlins and Winchesters but....they have throats and ignite the primers.

Now...I like my rifle even being a Miroku but........I wish it was engineered properly and functined properly. I have to work with the gun to make it better and that shouldn't be considering the cost of the gun.

I don't shoot as well as I did when I was younger so ifin I can take deer consistantly out to a hundred or a little more I'd live with the gun.

I hunt with a different gun than the Winchester. An equally heavy "Hawken" I put together that has the 4140 steel narrow lands 1-22 rifling 45/70 barrel and do well with that bruiser. It has a bullet swag for putting the rifling engraved on the 500gr. bullets so they load straight and easy. What does this have to do with anything?

I use the Hawken sidelock muzzleloader over the Winchester Miroku to deer hunt since I can trust the Hawken to fire and always shoots well. Out shoots the Winchester and even Marlins. If I had the Marlin 45/70 I would hunt with it.

[snowwolfe]

No throat is an easy fix. My local smith told me $50. He ordered a .45 caliber throat reamer and I plan on having him work on my new extra light 1886 next week. Turnbull wanted $100 plus shipping both ways!

[BloodGroove4570]

I own 3 Marlin Cowboy's at the moment (2 -1894CB 44mags &1895CB 45-70) and I Love'em. They are easy to work on, and a cinch to breakdown and clean! I've done trigger jobs to 2 of them and slicked up the actions on all of them. They function like butter and shoot even better.
If you want a good gun that's easy to work on and accurate you can't beat a Marlin IMHO. YMMV

BloodGroove4570

[3leggedturtle]

no disrespect intended ... but... I think I may have just blown a chunk or two in my mouth looking at such a beauty adorned with such a "thing".

... ... ... ...

Yeah but old eyes sometimes make you do things you wish you didn't have too.

[KirkD]

It's actually off the gun right now. I put a Williams FP with a Merit aperture on the receiver. I'm going to see a cataract surgeon next Tuesday. The only way I could shoot the gun is with the red dot. I'm hoping that after I get the eyes fixed I'll be able to use iron sights again. However, the red dot can make a difference for older shooters who just can't see the sights well enough anymore to be able to keep shooting. You gotta do what you gotta do to stay in the game. Lots of us old guys aren't ready to get out of the game.

Glad you can still shoot. Hope your surgery goes very well.

[smokeywolf]

Fun thread. Been shooting levers for well over 50 years and never fired a Marlin, Browning, Miroku or anything other than a few pre WW II and mostly pre WW I Winchesters. Never fired or even held a gun with a "lawyer safety" on it. I think I only own one gun that's younger than I am.

Feeling like a neophyte. Love hearing all the opinions.

smokeywolf

[snowwolfe]

I owned two Marlin 45-70s in the past before Remington took over. Both had issues with feeding and one locked up at the range and I had to take it apart to remove the round. Both were good in the accuracy department.
But after buying a Henry 45-70 last month I am so impressed that I seriously doubt I'll ever buy another Marlin.