35 whelen, VV N540 - check my extrapolation for safety please

[Larry Gibson]

Well excuse me for being rude but why in the h*ll would anyone even consider using 15 gr of a slow burning powder like 4350 in a 30-40 or 30-06 (whichever) either of which it is only 25% or a little over 30% load density?

15 gr is a considerable bit below any "minimum" load I've ever seen even with 220 gr cast bullets let alone jacketed bullets. It's not like there isn't a sufficient amount of proven load data for either cartridge and sufficient experience with really reduced loads that REQUIRE fast burning powders.

Since we don't have the story 1st hand or seen the bits and pieces of the damaged rifle or examined the unfired ammunition we have no idea of what happened. I'm also of the "show me" camp. If one is stupid enough to use a load like that then what else was or wasn't done? Again, excuse my rudeness, but really,....what can you say?

Larry Gibson

[swheeler]

Well, since I can't persuade you to try 15 (purely a guess) grains of 4350 in YOUR Krag, I guess there's no way to get you to believe either. Splitting hairs about was it a SEE or not is probly no where near learning anything. Was it an SEE or merely catastrophic case failure (is there a difference?)? Thing is, it did happen, and the facts are as presented.

You've got to be kiddin right? WOW

[swheeler]

Well excuse me for being rude but why in the h*ll would anyone even consider using 15 gr of a slow burning powder like 4350 in a 30-40 or 30-06 (whichever) either of which it is only 25% or a little over 30% load density?

15 gr is a considerable bit below any "minimum" load I've ever seen even with 220 gr cast bullets let alone jacketed bullets. It's not like there isn't a sufficient amount of proven load data for either cartridge and sufficient experience with really reduced loads that REQUIRE fast burning powders.

Since we don't have the story 1st hand or seen the bits and pieces of the damaged rifle or examined the unfired ammunition we have no idea of what happened. I'm also of the "show me" camp. If one is stupid enough to use a load like that then what else was or wasn't done? Again, excuse my rudeness, but really,....what can you say?

Larry Gibson

Larry I wouldn't waste my time with this, it's just toooooooooooooooo strange to be true

[leftiye]

You've got to be kiddin right? WOW

Yes, I was kidding - replying to Madsen shooter's sarcastic remark. I figgered that 15 grains would probly be about right to produce a SEE that he could investigate for himself. I guess I should have used the purple font, but I don't know how.

Something like that MAY have actually been the case with the gun in question, I don't know. Neither do you, you maybe should have thought of that, but you chose to blame it on a faulty chamber that you imagined that I cut (which was not the case). You make imaginations and then act as if they were truth.

[madsenshooter]

Only thing that'd likely happen is the bullet might not make it out the end of the 30" barrel, then again, it should, at about 1000fps and 13000psi chamber pressure. Since you were just guessing with 15gr how about 22gr behind a 200gr cast bullet? That'd give me around 1380fps @20,800psi. That is published data for .308 in Lee's book. I'd do that just to prove that Lee's load data is workable and that no SEE gremlin is going to come tear up my rifle. He checked with Hodgdon's ballistic gurus before publishing this data. Less than ideal, yes, but doable if I needed a close range plinking load and had no other powder or bullet. Just to add to the risk for all to see, I'd even do it with a 23BHN bullet and not use a lanyard.

[swheeler]

I guess it's up to SWV now if he wants to use VVN550, maybe we'll get a report from him.

[Blammer]

I doubt he comes back to this hijacked peeing contest... I wouldn't, and I won't anymore.

[sthwestvictoria]

I guess it's up to SWV now if he wants to use VVN550, maybe we'll get a report from him.

Well I have to confess that after I realised how slow the powder is and the lack of loading data often being for a reason and the preference of the Whelen for mid rate powders, I am going to use it in my .243 with jacketed loads for which there is data.

Sorry to waste peoples time however it is not so much due to SEE risk as believing the powder is just too slow to be a useful powder in the Whelen with that .358 open mouth. All data that I can find suggests using powders around Varget (AR2208) and faster.

[swheeler]

Give the 2208 a try and if it doesn't give the accuracy you want in your expected velocity range you always have the N550 to try. I figured 60 grs as usable case capacity so the starting load was 75% and approx 85% density for the 50 gr load, you'll be fine if you have to use it. I'm using 4320 now with a lighter bullet, sometimes a "softstart" just works mo better. Let us know how it pans out for you, and thanks. Scot

[45 2.1]

Here is data for the 9.3x62 with N550:

http://www.lapua.com/en/products/rel.../relodata/5/87