First shots with swaged bullets.

[Ironduke]

In a word, disappointing.

I was able to achieve 2 MOA at 100 yards with a 5.56mm AR. The bullets were formed using 22LR cases for jackets. The rifle can do much better with other 55 gr hp bullets.

I am hoping to increase bullet accuracy potential with better, more uniform swaging techniques.

On another note but relatedly, there were several cases with blown primers! This was discovered after I had shot most of the test rounds. While I know that the high pressure will have an adverse effect on accuracy, I chose a mid range load with Benchmark from the Hodgdon website.

I admit my mistake-- I broke the rule of starting at the low end and working up. I got spoiled to commercial bullets, and these perform differently.

So I will do a couple of things before I give up on swaging. I will work to improve my bullets. And I will work up loads for accuracy (and safety).

[Prospector Howard]

Ok, I have to bust your chops a little. First time out and your disappointed not shooting super tight groups? Also, mid range loads shouldn't be blowing out primers like there's excessive pressure. Something else is going on there. What diameter are the bullets coming out of the point die? Are they oversized? Something doesn't sound right.

[MUSTANG]

What dies?
What Weight?
What Ogive?
What is base (Flat based, Boat Tail, ...)
What Powder, charge weight, Velocity?
(+1) on question of bullet diameter after you have pointed?

[Bullshop]

Maybe you used pistol primers instead of rifle?

[Outer Rondacker]

tag need to learn. Thanks

[BT Sniper]

Everything Mustang said! plus load development!

The blown primers at a "mid range mild load" is something to be concerned with. One would have to wonder about the diameter of the bullet.

As far as load development goes, I have noticed a 2moa group shrink to under 3/4moa with only a difference of one grain of powder. Take a look at what 1 grain increments did for my load development. Obviously do not trust data I have posted here to be safe with your components but notice how everything shot more then 1MOA till I hit the 26 grain load








and here is a look at load development from a 22-250 with same bullets.





Once I settled on the 35 grain load I experimented with OAL length and got these results





Take a little time with load development and make sure your bullets are not oversized and you may just surprise yourself with what these bullets will be capable of.

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[Ironduke]

Ok. I was woefully short on info.

The bullets are .2245 or so diameter. See pic.


I am pretty sure it's a 6 r ogive, and I don't have a BT punch(sadly) so a FB is all I can do. These bullets weigh right at 55 gr +/- .2gr.

The load was 26 gr Benchmark in LC brass and CCI 400 primer with an OAL of 2.200"

I have no idea who made the dies. I bought this set of dies, the press, etc from a member here on the forum. That's all I know about the dies.

I fear I will never really enjoy swaging now that I see how it works. I like how when you are reloading, you can set your dies and work the press the same each time and duplicate the same round of ammo over and over. With the swaging press, you just have to feel for it. In essence, each bullet is different because your feel-meter is only so accurate.

Plus, this dinky 223 bullet is no fun. I'd rather be making some 308 VLD or 338 VLD or even a modest 257 sp. I can see the value in making bullets from 22 lr cases, but they have to shoot as good as factory bullets to be worth my time.

[Ironduke]

HOLY ****!!! I reviewed the data for 55 gr bullets with Benchmark on Hodgdon's website, and 26 gr is WAY over max. Their website shows 25.6 as max for the speer 55 gr SP. WOW!!! I was thinking I was loading a mid range load, but I was way over in such a small case!! No wonder I blew primers in Lake City brass, which has less capacity than civilian brass!!

I promise I am not an idiot. i don't know how I got my wires crossed on that load. No bullet will shoot good under those conditions.

[BT Sniper]

"I like how when you are reloading, you can set your dies and work the press the same each time and duplicate the same round of ammo over and over"

Don't know the system/dies you are using but my dies work exactly like those you wish for. Set the lock ring and you are producing the same bullet over and over again.

Glad you where able to identify the over pressure loads.

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[BT Sniper]

2.200 OAL length? You can seat them out longer then that too of course. Max OAL length for the 223 is 2.260 correct?

With a longer OAL and lesser powder charge you should be on your way.

Bullet looks pretty good. Don't know why it wouldn't shoot well for you.

BT

[Ironduke]

2.200 OAL length? You can seat them out longer then that too of course. Max OAL length for the 223 is 2.260 correct?

With a longer OAL and lesser powder charge you should be on your way.

Bullet looks pretty good. Don't know why it wouldn't shoot well for you.

BT

Yes, I could seat it out longer. My problem isn't seating dept, it's the extra powder in that load!! LOL! I'm glad some popped primers and ruined brass is the only issue I had after being so dumb with my load. Lesson re-learned!!

[Outer Rondacker]

Rats, and I was about to offer to buy them faulty dies off ya. Naaa just messing well not really I would of bought them but all and all I am happier you figure it out and didnt get yourself or anyone else hurt. Now get to reloading with the correct info and start at the bottom and work her up. I want to see the groups LOL. No really glad you got it figured out. Would have sucked if you sold the stuff and loaded up some factory heads and found the same issue out and then realized after you sold out. Glad I tagged this one for watching. Makes you think back to the basics some times. Happy loading.

[MOcaster]

Just wondering, could you post a picture of your dies for us to see? Someone here might be able to identify them. It might help you out. But really, I just want to see them.

[Ironduke]

I'll try to post pics of my set up this evening.

I need some help on a related matter. When I bought the set, the seller sent a set of dies for the bullets, a jacket forming die for the spent 22 LR cases, and a squirt die for the cores. He also included some books about swaging, and a zip lock each of formed 22 LR jackets, and swaged cores along with a mold for the cores.

My problem is the squirt die doesn't work. I think the die itself would work, but the punch does not go into the die far enough to press the core down to size. The punch will go into the die 3/8 of an inch, but then it stops; there appears to be a small shoulder inside the die that precludes father penetration. Either way, the core will slide into the die farther than the punch so that it does not squirt. The core is never squished between the punch and the stop in the die. As a result, I will have no way to swage my cores to size and shape.

Now what? I am not a machinist.

[Prospector Howard]

I don't want to come off sounding like a jerk, but you're reloading techniques seem to not be sound and a little sloppy. Anyone can make a mistake, but powder charge is something to always triple check before loading rounds. Also, "the bullets are .2245 OR SO diameter" using a cheap Chinese Midway caliper. I hope you're using some other known diameter projectiles to test your cheapo caliper against to make sure it's close to accurate. Those cheapo calipers are known to be off by a thousandth or two. That point die could be worn out and those bullets could be way oversized. So not only was your powder charge off, but the bullet size could also be causing pressures to be even higher. Also, what do you mean shooting .223 is no fun? There's nothing more fun and satisfying to me than to be able to shoot home swaged bullets in my .223 rifles and know that I have a limitless supply of them, so I can shoot as much as I want. Good luck, and you might want to get a good mic to measure with. You can call me a jerk now.

[Ironduke]

I don't want to come off sounding like a jerk, but you're reloading techniques seem to not be sound and a little sloppy. Anyone can make a mistake, but powder charge is something to always triple check before loading rounds. Also, "the bullets are .2245 OR SO diameter" using a cheap Chinese Midway caliper. I hope you're using some other known diameter projectiles to test your cheapo caliper against to make sure it's close to accurate. Those cheapo calipers are known to be off by a thousandth or two. That point die could be worn out and those bullets could be way oversized. So not only was your powder charge off, but the bullet size could also be causing pressures to be even higher. Also, what do you mean shooting .223 is no fun? There's nothing more fun and satisfying to me than to be able to shoot home swaged bullets in my .223 rifles and know that I have a limitless supply of them, so I can shoot as much as I want. Good luck, and you might want to get a good mic to measure with. You can call me a jerk now.

I readily admit my sloppiness in these loads. In fact, because I am so careful, and always use a system, I automatically assumed it was the bullets' fault--Of course it couldn't be my fault!! LOL! But as it turns out, i was surprised to see I had made such an error, and I admitted it as soon as I discovered my mistake. So yes. I admit I was sloppy, but believe me when I tell you I am a good, accurate, safe reloader with 20 years experience and tens of thousands of safely loaded rounds under my belt. This episode is not indicative of my loading.

As far as the calipers, When I purchased this set of dies, I inquired about the condition of the dies. As you say, some wear in the dies will yield oversized bullets. The gentleman who sold the dies sent me a pic. His electronic caliper showed .2245" on the read out. My caliper also shows the same, give or take .0001". That said, I do have a mic, that measures to .0001, and I have measured samples of bullets with it to confirm. I merely used that pic, because the caliper is easier to show a measurement with for photo purposes. All that to say I believe the diameter isn't the issue. In this case, I believe my excessive load was the issue.

And of course, 2MOA from a carbine isn't terrible for a first time out--especially with this load. And I do believe that as I learn to make better bullets my bullets will fly better. Plus, we have all seen loads that stink with one powder in a gun, but a different powder shoots like a house afire. Then there's seating depth, etc. Honestly, I feel better about the bullets knowing my load was so jacked up. I am more confident that I will be able to get them to shoot. And if not at 55 gr, maybe at 52, or 50, or 60.

As far as being fun, no. Sadly I have no love for the 223. I truly wish I could like the round. It's relatively cheap, reasonably accurate, light weight, almost recoil free, etc, etc, etc. But for me, it's the rice cake of cartridges. It doesn't get more boring aside from the 30-30 Win or 270 Win. I shoot it because of its practicality, not because it's fun. Ergo, for me, making bullets for the 223 is like hand washing your undies. You want clean undies, but it sucks to have to work so hard for something you don't really care to do.

So why did I start down this road? because I hope to swage some fun bullets some day, and this set came along offering the ability to learn and get some basic equipment. I'll tell you, though, I would have been MUCH happier with the same set up but dies to make 300-400 gr 458 bullets.

[shooterg]

Post them pics . Somebody here will probably take them dies off your hands and you can use the bucks to buy bigger ones from BT !

[Ironduke]

I may do just that. I have a PM in to BT. I am hoping he can help me with what I really want. If he can I think i'll sell this set-up and buy something where I can make bigger bullets I like better.

[runfiverun]

the punch you are using for the core swage die is the wrong one.
measure your punches, airc you'll need something in the .182 or so area.
you might have two of the punches mixed up or are missing one.

I know the core seating punches are different sizes for different jackets so you could end up with 2-3-4 punches that do the exact same thing.

[fredj338]

HOLY ****!!! I reviewed the data for 55 gr bullets with Benchmark on Hodgdon's website, and 26 gr is WAY over max. Their website shows 25.6 as max for the speer 55 gr SP. WOW!!! I was thinking I was loading a mid range load, but I was way over in such a small case!! No wonder I blew primers in Lake City brass, which has less capacity than civilian brass!!

I promise I am not an idiot. i don't know how I got my wires crossed on that load. No bullet will shoot good under those conditions.

Yeah, that is kinda scary. One should NEVER trust memory when reloading. check your data, then recheck, then check the powder charge & recheck. That is how guns go KB.
As to accuracy, I am quite happy with my limited results using BT's die set. From my 20" Hvy, 2-7 scope @ 100 off the bench.

FWIW, these bullets were 56.5gr. I backed my 55gr load data off 1gr & worked it back up. Not much diff in vel.