XFR/Spark Testing of alloy

[sirsloop]

Any idea where I might get some alloy spark tested or shot with an XRF gun? I called around some local scrap yards and they all just do a visual inspection of metals. They said if they had a large quantity of unknown alloy they sometimes sent it to a lab before scrapping it, but that's only if I were selling them something. I sent some online quote requests out to some online labs, but I have a feeling it'll be $$$.

Figured I would ask and see if anyone knew. For WW or pure lead metal its probably not worth it, but I just scored a bunch of unknown lead/tin/antimony solder that I alloyed and ingotized. I want to know the exact percentages of so I can better use it as mix metal. I could just wing it but if its cheap-ish to find out its worth it.

Figure I pulled 110# of solder out of a scrapyard lead bin, paid lead scrap prices $0.65/lbs ($70). I found a 1# silver solder roll I'm gonna sell for $40-50. I'll be out $20-30 for the entire haul. Considering I can use this to create over a thousand pounds of bullet alloy it's probably worth it to know the exact mix! There was 50/50, 60/40, 95/5, a bunch of real old unlabeled roll of solder, and a bunch of unknown solder rods. For all I know the unmarked ones were 95/5 and my alloy could be something like 75% tin, 20% lead, 5% antimony.

[ssnow]

Rotometals (forum sponsor, click on their link) will test samples for you. I think their rate is somewhere around 68 bucks or so, but you can send in 5 test pieces for that price. (or whatever the price is)

[sirsloop]

I just found a local scrap yard this morning that is willing to shoot a sample for me. I saw the roto metals deal the other day... I guess a good backup if local sources dry up.

I'm going up to the local place Saturday... Probably pick though their lead bin then get the sample tested. Ya know at least throw them a few bucks before using their $35,000 tester and time hahahah

[bangerjim]

ALL my local scrap guys have guns. They do it all the time on their incoming stuff. I sure can't understand how any profitable yard could NOT have one!

banger

[jsizemore]

I talked to the head guy at my scrapyard about checking alloy with XRF gun. He said if he had one he would be glad to check stuff for me. He nor any of the guys that work for him wanted to be the guy that dropped the gun on the concrete floor and have to pay for fixing it. Can't say I blame them.

[bangerjim]

"Good help IS hard to find!"

banger

[RedHawk357Mag]

I was going to use these guys as soon as i get all my foundry/mono/lino alloy together to find my average numbers. Roto LOOKs like 59.00 per sample.

http://www.expressxrfanalysis.com/services-costs

[sirsloop]

ok so I paid a visit to the yard this morning. The yard boss was on site and pulled out a niton XRF in what looked like a precious metals weigh room. He shot a couple of the ingots I brought over and the reading was pretty much BS. Last weekend I melted down over 60 pounds of tin+lead solder rolls and made it into ingots. He told me the gun said it was 94% lead. Nonsense. If anything I would expect it to come back and say between 40-60% tin. It ONLY displayed lead, not any of the other elements in the alloy. He mentioned that the gun only reads out known alloys of metals, not home cooked ingots of some random alloy. Anyways, either he doesnt know how to use the gun, he didnt want to give me good results so he could buy my metal at scrap lead prices, or he has some XRF gun that doesnt give you the PPM read out for all elements.

Back to the drawing board I guess.

hey while I was there I scored 110# of nice clean pure lead sheeting, and another 48# of 50-50 bar solder for scrap prices. Including my haul from last weekend, that brings me to over 100# of tin solder. Now I just need like 2000# of lead to mix it with HAHAHAH. Long story short I'm just gonna use my solder ingots as if they were 50-50 even though I know they have a little antimony in there. They are probably more than 50-50 in tin as there was a good amount of 95/5 and 60/40 dropped in. The retail 50-50 bars I'll hold on to as they are worth $$$ and I paid scrap prices . Maybe i'll offload em for profit on ebay or something... idk

[6622729]

I was going to use these guys as soon as i get all my foundry/mono/lino alloy together to find my average numbers. Roto LOOKs like 59.00 per sample.

http://www.expressxrfanalysis.com/services-costs

$25 per sample and 2 week leadtime. If you are serious about knowing what you have and have some quantity of it, I don't see how $25 is not a good deal. You could easily save that in TIN value by KNOWING what you have instead of guessing or relying on an amatuer with a field XRF gun.

[jcren]

A couple guys here have access to guns and will test a sample for a pound or so of lead. May take some searching, but sounds fair to me.

[bruce381]

search member BNE he will shoot a sample for the price of a 1 LB of lead, i just sent him a ingot of battery buss bar to shoot.

[lightman]

+1, He has a fast turn around time too!

[RedHawk357Mag]

Got em tested. Fortunately I had a pretty good idea going in what I had. I didn't really agree with my first test returns and tried a different test place and found the results more to what I expected. So I guess as with other things there is difference between tools and tool operators. If I had absolutely no idea what the alloy was I probably have went with my first results and been none the wiser.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[gtgeorge]

Got em tested. Fortunately I had a pretty good idea going in what I had. I didn't really agree with my first test returns and tried a different test place and found the results more to what I expected. So I guess as with other things there is difference between tools and tool operators. If I had absolutely no idea what the alloy was I probably have went with my first results and been none the wiser.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I wanted to recommend having tested at more than 1 place as I have seen some offering testing to be not correct in the results. Best to have 2 different results to compare in my opinion. It helps to have a known alloy or 2 done at the same time to throw out some results if needed.

[6622729]

search member BNE he will shoot a sample for the price of a 1 LB of lead, i just sent him a ingot of battery buss bar to shoot.

Can you share your results when you get them? I have a bunch of industrial battery buss bar lead.

[wadcutter]

ok so I paid a visit to the yard this morning. The yard boss was on site and pulled out a niton XRF in what looked like a precious metals weigh room. He shot a couple of the ingots I brought over and the reading was pretty much BS. Last weekend I melted down over 60 pounds of tin+lead solder rolls and made it into ingots. He told me the gun said it was 94% lead. Nonsense. ...

This story made me laugh. Scrap metal dealers make used car salesmen look like saints.

[Budzilla 19]

sirsloop, don't know your location, but if there is an industrial x-ray company in town,(think pipeline or refinery), they should have an xrf gun in their arsenal of tools. Most of the time. if no written report is needed, they won't charge you for the shot! Just take a shot of the xrf gun's screen with your phone, and you got your proof! Good luck.

[bruce381]

Can you share your results when you get them? I have a bunch of industrial battery buss bar lead.

This was from Big Joe forklifts the buss bar connects the batteries together and when batteries are replaced they cut off the buss bars and toss them.

From BNE

Battery Bus Bar Lead

Pb = 97.3%
Sb = 2.7%

Thank you again for the lead!

BNE
BNE

[Drew P]

I sold some gold that I accumulated the other day that had to be assayed. The place that did the assaying had an xrf machine. Wasn't a gun and the guy said he'd test anything I wanted free. It was a chamber with a video screen. Maybe it was made to test small items like jewelry. So I'll be going back with some ingots. He said it would tell us exactly what we have.

Something else ive read though is that even on the same ingot you can have different readings and different alloys. Looking at the surface of my melt pot I'm not surprised.

[RogerDat]

This story made me laugh. Scrap metal dealers make used car salesmen look like saints.

Without a doubt they are really into the buy low and sell high school of financial success. During the downturn I watched a local yard slowly shrink as they sold off "inventory" to provide cash flow to keep the business running. By shrink I mean huge piles of materials were dismembered to keep crews busy and get maximum value out of the stuff by cutting off any brass, copper or aluminum and separating the steel from it.

Thing with the XRF gun is it has to be configured as to what to look for, if the device is not set correctly, or used correctly it gives messed up readings. As someone else mentioned a patch of surface lead with little tin in that spot will throw it off, heck ingots that have gotten rust dust on them from a container will come back as having some % of iron. Operator has to know what he is looking for, then has to know how to use the device or you won't get good results.

Many scrap yards treat solder or even almost pure tin as "lead" they don't sort out tin, they don't test for tin, gun won't be configured to consider tin. The upside of this situation is since they don't care about lead alloys they don't charge more for those containing tin or antimony as a rule. However if the owners son casts and reloads..... expect to pay a premium for linotype or solder. Don't ask how I know. Still they treat me ok, but they know the relative value of the "good stuff" to me, still a deal but not generally at plain lead price.