What to do with a magnum 700 action. Ideas?

[JesterGrin_1]

338-22. The cartridge only exists in my head, but it should provide you with a barrel life of at least 500 shots.

Believe me that when you start to use large cases with small bullets you will hit a brick wall of returns. A friend build a 6MM-06. And it turned out to be very touchy with pressure. And he did not get much in the way of more speed due to this. Not to mention throat erosion would be tremendously increased. He did just as well with a .243 Winchester Ackley Improved. I believe he was getting around 4100 FPS or so from a Hornady 58Gr Z Max.

[Whiterabbit]

Pretty sure there was facetiousness involved in that post.

[Nobade]

The only problem is that for the cost of the bolt, I could sell the rifle and buy a Remington action and start from scratch. By the time I change the bolt, change the barrel, change the caliber, and change the stock, Winifred will have had so many facelifts, she may not be the same woman anymore.
Maybe I should pass her to someone who will appreciate her in her current state.

See my previous post - no need for gunsmiths to be buying new bolts! You can even get really cute and adapt a Savage bolt head to a Remington bolt, then it's really easy to change face sizes. I have a blown up 308 bolt I have been meaning to do that to.

-Nobade

[WallyM3]

.404 Jeff.

[txnative1951]

Looks like the .300 Win Mag brass would fit a .458" bullet if converted to a straight walled case. The brass would probably last longer also. Basically, you would be creating a round that could use .45-70 bullets and handle even more pressure. Load it down and you could even have Trapdoor level pressures.

[MBTcustom]

Looks like the .300 Win Mag brass would fit a .458" bullet if converted to a straight walled case. The brass would probably last longer also. Basically, you would be creating a round that could use .45-70 bullets and handle even more pressure. Load it down and you could even have Trapdoor level pressures.

I thought about that long and hard, and really the 458 WinMag is still the most logical choice if I stay with the magnum bolt/face. Unless of course, the brass is cheaper for the 404? I'll look into it.

[dragon813gt]

I vote for the 30-06. Call me simple but you don't need more gun unless you are going to Africa. Sure you can build whatever you feel like. But if you go w/ one of the lesser used rounds dies, brass and bullets get expensive in a hurry. Case conversions can run the gamut from nice and easy to needing lathe work. I'd make it a good old '06 and shoot it a lot for minimal money. All those large bores chew up powder and lead as well.

[Nobade]

I thought about that long and hard, and really the 458 WinMag is still the most logical choice if I stay with the magnum bolt/face. Unless of course, the brass is cheaper for the 404? I'll look into it.

It is cheap if you use reformed Ultramag brass. Not if you use Jeff brass, and you have to change the bolt for that anyway - it is slightly bigger than a normal mag rim. 458 is great if you get a reamer with a Lott throat in it. The regular 458 throat is "unique" and a challenge to get cast to shoot well through. Not to mention obtaining a .423" groove barrel and a mould and......
416 Remington does the same thing as a Jeff, just not as cool....

-Nobade

[btroj]

Here is a wild idea Tim.....

Sell the rifle and use the money to buy a bore scope.

[BruceB]

The .404 is more practical today than it's ever been, as far as handloading is concerned.

I've reformed 160 .375 UltraMag cases to .404 without loss. NOTE that the .338 UltraMag is a bit shorter than the .375 and will end up with a shorter neck. The .300 UM will work, but MIGHT end up with necks too thin in wall thickness. Best to use the .375s. The cases are so close in head diameter that a standard H&H-size shellholder has worked fine for me over the last 45 years.....

All it takes to reform them is:

1. Size the case (without the decapping/expander assembly in the die) just enough to allow it to chamber in the rifle with a bit of "feel" on the bolt handle

2. Prime the case, charge with about 21 grains of #2400, and fill it with cornmeal, topping it with a bit of tissue.

3. Fire these VERTICALLY , somewhere that the noise won't matter.

Off-vertical firing can give uneven case mouths. Very little trimming or evening-up was needed if fired straight up.


NEI makes their 421-390 mould, which casts an almost perfect duplicate of the factory jacketed bullets. The bullet is an excellent fit in my rifle.

The cartridge has serious horsepower, with 2500 fps easily available with the 400-grain bullet. I bought mine for Wood Bison, and it worked superbly on a dozen or so of the buff.... up to a monster bull that probably weighed close to 3000 pounds (1700 pounds of MEAT IN THE FREEZER).

Also, you won't find a .404 on the next bench at the range very often....if ever!

[gewehrfreund]

Hmmm, I'm surpised no one has mentioned one that I always though would be cool in a magnum 700 action; 30-40 Krag. Perfect for cast.

[Nobade]

The .404 is more practical today than it's ever been, as far as handloading is concerned.

I've reformed 160 .375 UltraMag cases to .404 without loss. NOTE that the .338 UltraMag is a bit shorter than the .375 and will end up with a shorter neck. The .300 UM will work, but MIGHT end up with necks too thin in wall thickness. Best to use the .375s. The cases are so close in head diameter that a standard H&H-size shellholder has worked fine for me over the last 45 years.....

All it takes to reform them is:

1. Size the case (without the decapping/expander assembly in the die) just enough to allow it to chamber in the rifle with a bit of "feel" on the bolt handle

2. Prime the case, charge with about 21 grains of #2400, and fill it with cornmeal, topping it with a bit of tissue.

3. Fire these VERTICALLY , somewhere that the noise won't matter.

Off-vertical firing can give uneven case mouths. Very little trimming or evening-up was needed if fired straight up.


NEI makes their 421-390 mould, which casts an almost perfect duplicate of the factory jacketed bullets. The bullet is an excellent fit in my rifle.

The cartridge has serious horsepower, with 2500 fps easily available with the 400-grain bullet. I bought mine for Wood Bison, and it worked superbly on a dozen or so of the buff.... up to a monster bull that probably weighed close to 3000 pounds (1700 pounds of MEAT IN THE FREEZER).

Also, you won't find a .404 on the next bench at the range very often....if ever!

That's great to hear! I am glad somebody else out there had the same idea. Isn't even the 375 RUM case a bit short? My other question - who made your barrel blank? Pretty sure Kreiger makes them, not sure of who else. Thanks for sharing!

-Nobade

[Whiterabbit]

The .404 is more practical today than it's ever been, as far as handloading is concerned.

I've reformed 160 .375 UltraMag cases to .404 without loss. NOTE that the .338 UltraMag is a bit shorter than the .375 and will end up with a shorter neck. The .300 UM will work, but MIGHT end up with necks too thin in wall thickness. Best to use the .375s. The cases are so close in head diameter that a standard H&H-size shellholder has worked fine for me over the last 45 years.....

All it takes to reform them is:

1. Size the case (without the decapping/expander assembly in the die) just enough to allow it to chamber in the rifle with a bit of "feel" on the bolt handle

2. Prime the case, charge with about 21 grains of #2400, and fill it with cornmeal, topping it with a bit of tissue.

3. Fire these VERTICALLY , somewhere that the noise won't matter.

Off-vertical firing can give uneven case mouths. Very little trimming or evening-up was needed if fired straight up.


NEI makes their 421-390 mould, which casts an almost perfect duplicate of the factory jacketed bullets. The bullet is an excellent fit in my rifle.

The cartridge has serious horsepower, with 2500 fps easily available with the 400-grain bullet. I bought mine for Wood Bison, and it worked superbly on a dozen or so of the buff.... up to a monster bull that probably weighed close to 3000 pounds (1700 pounds of MEAT IN THE FREEZER).

Also, you won't find a .404 on the next bench at the range very often....if ever!

Does fireforming always have to be done with cornmeal and tissue? what about a paraffin plug? Is there ANY way to avoid vertical fireforming? My range will have a cow if I do that. Finally, can I use alternate powders? trailboss would be great, fill to base of neck and seat a wax plug or the like.

[3leggedturtle]

I was wrong, 358 Norma is based the case length of the 7mmRM 300W and 338W mags. Go with a 35 G&H Magnum, is a necked down 375H&H case .

[bmiller]

I always wanted a .458 Lott. I think that would be fun

[txnative1951]

I always wanted a .458 Lott. I think that would be fun

I looked up the .458 Lott. It seems to be pretty much exactly what I was thinking about when I suggested a straightwalled case made from the .300 Win Mag brass. Oh well... So much for having an original idea.

[swheeler]

I still think the 425 Express would be perfect, 300 Win Mag case and 423 bullet, match the 404 performance and brass is a dime a dozen. Savage was supposed to introduce it in late 1990's with their safari grade rifles, the rifles happened for a while but no 425 Express offered.

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=Nobade;2680830]ea. Isn't even the 375 RUM case a bit short?

No, the .375 RUM makes nice full-length .404 cases.

QUOTE: My other question - who made your barrel blank?

My rifle was made in England by Cogswell and Harrison,("168 Picadilly, London").
By its styling, I'd estimate it was built sometime after WWII. The proportions and general appearance look very much like an American post-war sporter. The stock is serial-numbered to the rifle, so it's probably original.

-

[BruceB]

Does fireforming always have to be done with cornmeal and tissue? what about a paraffin plug? Is there ANY way to avoid vertical fireforming? My range will have a cow if I do that. Finally, can I use alternate powders? trailboss would be great, fill to base of neck and seat a wax plug or the like.

The only method I used was 2400 and cornmeal. I used a loose tissue plug just to hold the "cartridges" together while being transported in a loading block. I see no reason that a wax plug wouldn't work.

I tried a few horizontal shots with the fire-forming load, and the case mouths came out very uneven. After that, I changed the method and vertical firing gave MUCH better results.

Why would your range object to your firing of what are effectively "blanks" (no bullets)? An explanation to a range officer should work. After all, you're only throwing a puff of flour into the air. Failing that, you'd have to locate open ground somewhere to do it. The loads ARE loud.

As mentioned, I only tried 2400 powder. It worked fine, so no further powders were tested. I think substituting powders of similar burning rate should work, but START LOW, and work it up just until you get reasonable case shaping.

The case only has to fit the chamber well enough to allow it to chamber with a heavier load AND A BULLET. When the first bullet is fired, the case will take its final, perfected form.

[Nobade]

[QUOTE=BruceB;2681697]

ea. Isn't even the 375 RUM case a bit short?

No, the .375 RUM makes nice full-length .404 cases.

QUOTE: My other question - who made your barrel blank?

My rifle was made in England by Cogswell and Harrison,("168 Picadilly, London").
By its styling, I'd estimate it was built sometime after WWII. The proportions and general appearance look very much like an American post-war sporter. The stock is serial-numbered to the rifle, so it's probably original.

-

Thanks! I had been making Dakota cases from RUM brass, and thought Jeff cases would work but hadn't tried it yet. The drawing I have of the Jeff shows a 2.875" case and the RUM is supposed to be 2.850". Now you have gone and done it, I need to build a new rifle! The original English C&H rifle sounds like a nice thing to have. I thought from your post you had built a newer one, the old one is even better!

Just a FWIW for the other poster, a gunsmith friend of mine made up a deal to allow you to use your seating die to fireform cases. It screws into the die and has a rebounding firing pin you hit with a hammer, and a shellholder to hold the headspace. You can stick the other end of the die (with the seating stem removed) in a pipe that has its end buried in the ground or in a sand filled bucket. That way he points the case straight down to get the same effect you are getting and does them in his shop.

-Nobade