Olde Eynsford loading recomendations ?

[Chill Wills]

GOEX, by way of Hodgdon Powder Co has donated powder to the upcoming American Creedmoor match competitors. I will be bringing it with me to hand out.

Chris Hodgdon has expressed interest in what kind of target accuracy this powder is capable of. I told him I would get it in the hands of some rifle cranks and find out. As you may know, Swiss powder has no competition currently in the accuracy matches like NRA Black Powder Target Rifle and NRA BPCR - Silhouette. 99% + riflemen shoot Swiss because of its accuracy and ease of developing a target level load for their rifle. It is expensive yet cost effective when compared to burning up time, lead and less expensive powder looking for a Target load that just ain't there. With Swiss you develop a target load within the first lb of powder and you know you still have the remaining 24 or 49 lbs to shoot in matches. No fuss - no waste. This is how it has been since GOEX left PA in the late 1990's.

So............ here comes an American made powder. GOEX Express. It was good. Almost able to compete with Swiss but no cigar. GOEX stopped production of Express a few years back do to ????
Now, GOEX is producing Old Eynsford. Chris Hodgdon tells me their intention is to compete head to head with Swiss on the target firing line. They have high hopes. I do too! I would love to have a choice and I would love to shoot American made powder!

What say you? If you have shot Olde Eynsford in target conditions, can this powder compete? And, what special needs does this powder require for fine accuracy when loading it?
I have never loaded rounds with this new powder and I have no idea what advice to pass on to those that try it. I will pass on anything you might offer in the way of advice. Thanks in advance. -Michael Rix

[Nobade]

Funny you would post this today. I just got back from the range after my first try with Old Eynsford 1 1/2 Fg in the 45-70. Either this is the easiest powder to work with I have ever seen or I got really lucky first try. 70gr. weighed then thrown with a Redding measure, drop tubed and compressed about .150" with a .030" poly wad. NEI Postell boolit, cast from stick on wheelweights. Lubed with Pearl lube. Seated with minimal neck tension to touch the lands of my C. Sharps '75.

I started at 300M, shooting in high (15-25 mph) switchy winds. It was easily holding 1 MOA vertical, and the more I shot the better my wind calls got and I tightened up the horizontal. Moved out to 385M, same deal. Couldn't hardly miss. Moved to 500M. Still holding about 6 inches for vertical. Last 8 shots went into a 6X7 inch group.

I fired 30 shots, using three breaths with the blow tube between shots. Didn't have to wipe the bore at all. Afterward, cleanup was fast and easy. One wet patch showed very light fouling, then another that came out almost clean. Third was dry and that was it - clean rifle. That is less fouling than anything I had ever tried. I am impressed - accurate, powerful, burns super clean. Humidity was about 20% today so not a terrible test of fouling control, but still this stuff really looks promising. That was too easy - fine tuning will come next to see if I can tweak it to be any better but it sure looks like it's working well now.

-Nobade

[Lead pot]

C-W

I been using this OE powder since Jerry started stocking it. The photo below is the best loads I have worked up using a scoped 21# Shiloh.
I know I been told well that is not during a National match situation, but accuracy is accuracy match or not.
Those where 5 shots at a close 135 yards but I have also shot many large 20 shot groups that stayed in the 3" X ring at 200.
This powder does not take the back seat against any powder I have used.
It gets two thumbs up from me!!

[Don McDowell]

Mike, all of my 200 yd midrange at Raton was shot with OE, and most of the others in the midrange, but I did switch, but turns out day two of the position was fired with a broken firing pin... But be that as it may, those 200 yd targets were fired with patched bullets and no fouling control other than a blowtube.
Treat the OE like you do your Swiss, and be prepared to save 8$ a can from there on out.

[Chill Wills]

Nobade Thanks for the report. It sounds like you did do well....0.150" compression worked for you. What primer? So far just too little data to see a trend but if I can get a little info it would be a place to start. Of the three replies so far, all reports are hopeful !

Lead pot I agree. accuracy is accuracy and your targets look promising. I know you burn a lot of powder and know a thing or two for sure. Can you provide any specifics as to compression likes and opinion on hot primer v mild? Maybe what size/grade difference there might be advantage with, if you know yet? BTW- thanks for sharing the info!

Hey Don, I think I remember you saying when we shot that match at Byers, you were shooting this Olde Eynsford and also the KIK maybe, if I got that right???? Again, if you want to pass any likes or sweet-spot compression or component info to the info pool, I would gladly tell the guys I give the sample powder too. It is my hope that after this sample powder gets worked over by the American Creedmoor Cup riflemen we get some data back from them too!

For what it is worth, I was thinking 1f and 1.5F powder for the 1000y cartridges would be good when I first discussed this Hodgdon Powder. It turned out that GOEX did not have a case of 1.5F to supply for testing so sent us 2F, which will be fine too. I am sure it will be well suited to the more often shot smaller case size used in mid-range type shooting.

-Michael Rix

[Chill Wills]

Nobade, I forgot and wanted to ask you.... What is going on with the Albuquerque BPCR guys?? Did everyone (like we all do) grow old and move on? I knew and rubbed elbows with a lot of guys from around there over the years ......? Too bad I lost touch with them.

[Nobade]

Nobade, I forgot and wanted to ask you.... What is going on with the Albuquerque BPCR guys?? Did everyone (like we all do) grow old and move on? I knew and rubbed elbows with a lot of guys from around there over the years ......? Too bad I lost touch with them.

Nobade Thanks for the report. It sounds like you did do well....0.150" compression worked for you. What primer? So far just too little data to see a trend but if I can get a little info it would be a place to start. Of the three replies so far, all reports are hopeful !

Hi,
Primers were CCI large rifle military ones. I don't like them for this application because they are very hard and sometimes give misfires. But they are all I have at the moment, so they get used.

The BPCR matches at the city range are dead. So is all silhouette out there. When the Volcano Ramslammers disbanded, they handed their targets over to Zia R&P since we were shooting highpower silhouette out there. But that was short lived, and out of a club of 1700 members we couldn't get two to show up for a match. So the BPCR guys used our targets for a time, and then they dwindled down and only one was left of them. I guess he doesn't go anymore because those targets are still laying on the rails waiting to be shot at. On a more positive note, a couple of guys and myself are wanting to revive the sport here. We plan on practicing at Zia R&P for a time, probably having swinger matches in conjunction with my regularly scheduled cast bullet (boolit) match. I hope some day we can get enough guys together to go back to the City range and shoot those targets again, but that may be a while off. I don't have any customers left who care about silo, they all have moved to three gun or precision tactical matches. Not many of us old time holdouts out there any more, I guess.

-Nobade

[LynC2]

Chill Wills,
I recently bought a Browning BPCR from TexasMac and contacted Fred Seybert to see if they were still doing any silhouette shooting here in Albuquerque. He informed me that they had disbanded the club due to people moving, dying, or various other reasons and didn't have enough members left to be viable. So the club was disbanded. I'm bending Nobade's ear about maybe starting something at the Zia range, even if it is only the two of us.

Ha Ha, looks like Nobade and I were answering at the same time!

[freedom475]

Fire formed cases, no resizeing, bullets hand seated.

I tried the powder in my 45-70 from around 62gr all the way to 78gr...the best loads were with minimum compression, and 24" drop tube.

I think I was using Fed150 LP primers for this group...but it may have been WinLR's

[LynC2]

freedom475,
That is some good shooting and excellent information to add to my where to start data. I'm still waiting on my bore diameter PP mold to try out my new rifle.

[John Boy]

First of all, I am a fan of the 2009 lot of KIK.
Here are some numbers that I clocked last year:
45-70 Mini Groove 530gr -70gr
KIK 1.5 ............Olde E 1.5
AVG -1148.2.....1256.8
SD-19.8 ..........27.1

45-90 RCBS 82084
543gr -75gr
Swiss 3F........ Olde E 3F
AVG-1343.5.....1363.75
SD-12.7..........11.5

38-72
L375167 - 275gr
68gr Olde E 2F
AVG - 1504
SD - 34.8

* For each caliber - shot 5 rounds with no tubing or patching
* No accuracy decrease shooting at a 20" plate at 200yds
* The foul for Swiss & Kik was nearly the same - moist and less than Olde E
* The foul for Olde E was more moist and there was more foul in the bore

Here some density & sieve ratios I posted on the Shiloh forum ...
http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/vi...20719&p=226654

Note the amount of 40-50-60 mesh grains held in the FFFg sieve ratio. This is why IMHO - Olde E has higher velocities than Swiss

[Don McDowell]

Chill, with the OE, it works very well from zero to around 1/4 inch compression. It works alright with a lot of compression but doesn't hold as tight over the chronograph.
KIK treat it just like Goex Express.

[Lead pot]

Michael That particular group was shot using 93.5 grains of 2FG Olde Eynsford compressed .260". One milk carton wad over the powder, 1/8" lube wad, .046" card and a 1/16" cork under a elliptical KAL Mould at 501 grain 1.505" long with 1/16 L/T alloy.
The rifle has a 1/17 ROT.
I also have a load of 82 grains of the 2Fg OE that I use the same wad stack but a light .110 compression that shoots better out to the 1K than the .260 compression load does.
The compression with this powder seems like a sine wave a several different compression levels, but it favores light compression in the .44.
Cant give you any sound report for the 1.5 OE. I haven't shot it much cause the 2F is shooting so well so I settled on it.

Kurt
Forgot the primer is the WLR

[Boz330]

Mike, I had good luck with OE 2F in a 45-70. The load was Starline brass, 68gr, compressed .250, 060 poly wad topped with a Lyman Postel cast 20-1. Primer was a Remington LPP with over primer wad made from 3X5 card stock. I worked from 65gr up to 73gr but the 68gr worked the best.
I only shot one mid range match with it and had my best scores to date with it at Camp Atterbury last fall. I only bought 2 pounds originally to try but as soon as finances shore up I'll have a case on the way. The clean up also seemed easier than Swiss because the fouling seemed softer.

Bob

[Chill Wills]

Thank you for the detailed replies! Sounds like the 2F will be useful too so that is good. I wonder what the lott to lott differences will turn out to be?

So far, happily, all your news has been good about this Olde Eynsford powder! Sounds like from zero to about 0.250" compression should be tried and primers like LPP- Rem or Fed Or CCI-br-II would be a good place to start. It also sounds like this powder it can make some velocity unlike some others that just does not have the zip.
John Boy's SD numbers sound just wrong!?!? Could it be that those are the ES numbers??? Even then that would be a large number for ES! John Boy, I question that data. Could you take a look again please?

I need to get on the road and head to the match. I will be camped in warmer country by tomorrow night! Thanks again for the data but please keep the posts going while I am gone. It is very interesting and useful. I am sure anyone contemplating trying OE will find your experiences a great benefit. Thanks again! -Michael Rix

[John Boy]

John Boy's SD numbers sound just wrong!?!? Could it be that those are the ES numbers??? Even then that would be a large number for ES! John Boy, I question that data. Could you take a look again please?

Michael, the SD's were calculated using the Excel STDEV formula which I use to calculate all my chrono readings

[Don McDowell]

Mike the difference between the first and second lots haven't been noticeable. I just got another case before the first of the year, but didn't check the lot number, and haven't fired any of it yet.
Robert G has shot some of it, and I gave a can of 2f to Cody, don't know if he's tried it yet or not.
Keep us posted on the Cup.

[Red River Rick]

C-W

I been using this OE powder since Jerry started stocking it. The photo below is the best loads I have worked up using a scoped 21# Shiloh.
I know I been told well that is not during a National match situation, but accuracy is accuracy match or not.
Those where 5 shots at a close 135 yards but I have also shot many large 20 shot groups that stayed in the 3" X ring at 200.
This powder does not take the back seat against any powder I have used.
It gets two thumbs up from me!!

Kurt:

What bullet were you using for this testing?

RRR

[Lead pot]

Rick.

That is the .44 .432 Elliptical I had you make for the .44-2-5/8 bn a few years back. It came a little to long for the 1/19 Rot and wouldn't shoot for sour apples past 500 yards so I oiled it up and put it away till I got the .44 with a 1/17 rot and it's shooting quite well in it. I think I still have the final drawing before you cut that mould.
I used it all last summer and got some long range loads worked out to us for this season.

Kurt

[Lead pot]

Here is a 3 shot ladder group I worked up using 3Fg OE powder for the .45-90 using a 513 gr PP bullet Brent Danielson prolate designed and I had a mould made for it. I worked with this bullet last fall and this winter but I have not tested it past 200 yards. I sent a bunch to a friend to test on his long range but I think he must have threw them in his lead pot and melted them down
These where shot at 200 yards using the Shiloh #2 Creedmoor Silhouette with a 1/18 ROT and the same wad combination as the .44 above.
The compression on the best group was .290 and opened back up at 325" compression. The far right target was a 5 shot group @ 200 yards. All of those groups are with the same sight setting. You can see a pattern starting between the last two groups If it wasn't for the fat thumb pressure they would have been very good groups.
I haven't used the 3Fg in the .44's yet.