Triball blown wad probem SOLVED!

[cpileri]

Ed,
did someone send you what you need?
C-

Ok I have everything, but the .600" roundballs and orange wadcups.

Including 58cal roundballs, Steel and 4759 powder..

I can test few loads if that would help, if you send me orange wadcups
and some of the .600" balls.

I'd like to see the problem solved. Ed

[BABore]

Nobody can, will, or would wait on the proper age of the load before it's ready to shoot for consistency. We all have the recipe for this load in common (mostly). What we don't have is loading technique in common. Personally, I would look to how the load is crimped. Are you roll crimping or folding? Roll crimp would give you the most consistency assuming it's down tight to the load every time.

[savage308]

I have tried both and both are inconsistent. works great for a couple of shots then not so great the next. even when it doesn't work great it still patterns within a foot at 40 yards with 2 balls inches apart and the third a foot away usually higher. I am going to try to mark each ball somehow to get more info on what's happening when I load more up. the original load data called for roll crimp and that's what I did and just tried fold crimps to see if it helped and it didn't so im back to roll crimping again. been lousy weather for shooting lately but when it clears up the lead will be flying.

[hubel458]

No nothing yet. and if you have everything, including
those two powders but the 58cal balls I
can send you some also if you want to test.Ed.

[jhunter77]

What we need is a YOUTUBE of some of the successful loaders loading a shell or two. I agree there is something in my sequence that is not quite right but who knows.

[cpileri]

Am I confused? (not at all unlikely)
I thought YOU wanted to test this and needed some 60-cal balls and some orange wads. I was going to send you a handful if no one else did.
I suppose I can do the test, though it may be awhile before I get to it.
And my triball loads patterned well, not as tight as Dixie but no fliers either; so the only variable I woudl be testing would be the 4759 powder; of which I do have some.

Let me knwo what you want.
C-

Ok I have everything, but the .600" roundballs and orange wadcups.

Including 58cal roundballs, Steel and 4759 powder..

I can test few loads if that would help, if you send me orange wadcups
and some of the .600" balls.

I'd like to see the problem solved. Ed

[hubel458]

OH I thought you was already to do testing and I was going to help
with the 58cal balls. But I'll be happy to test, just need .600
balls and orange wads.ED

[cpileri]

OK. I'll get a small package together.
C-

[savage308]

well I found more tri-ball shells that were 2 weeks old and the 28gr load blew the base of the wad out and at 40 yards 2 ball were an inch apart and the third was 6" higher. also shot 25gr and the base didn't blow but had slightly larger spread. both hulls didn't eject good and had minor marks on the case head at the ejector and 180 degrees. im going to have to get some 3" fed hulls because I think the fiocchi heads are too soft for this load in my 870.

[hubel458]

I got the .600" balls and the orange wadcupsfrom Carl-

Sectioned one and the bottom is curved, almost matches the balls.
Balls , the .600" ones, goes clear to bottom ok.

Checked wadcups in cases and its bottom sealing section is to loose of a fit,
So I checked its fit into the top of a BPGS seal and fits perfect,
so I will use just a BPGS under wadcup and use 4759 powder
in a 3.5" case to test. Due to length of wadcup will get only
about 75 gr 4759 in. Will start about 65gr
Using 4759 with its easier, slower, start to peak
pressure will solve case sticking problems, which is really
a need with a 950gr payload.. At the least use nothing
faster than Steel...

The curing problem mentioned is the way to solve it from the
looks of the wadcups, based on their condition before reloading.
Couple were perfectly shaped and round but rest the petals
bent, twisted from weight of others in package they come in.
I'm sure when I fire two loads, when rain and ice stops, one good shape wadcup, and
one bad shaped without lettin them cure for a month that good one
will put 3 balls in nearly the same hole and bad one will have a flyers or spread....Ed

[hubel458]

Reason I feel the starting shape of wadcup at loading is major accuracy factor, as
to have the petals get a good purchase on the round balls( which is much
harder than a flat sided slug)\, they use filler like grex and if petals
are twisted and bent bad, the filler can't settle good and get a good
purchase along with petals on the balls. As well as keeping them centered when they exit the barrel.Ed

[jhunter77]

Ed,

Thanks for doing this, I look forward to your results

[jhunter77]

Well week 4 of curing and still blow wads and no pattern. Starting to think buffer is needed under the bottom ball. The bottom ball punches thru the wad base where ever it is in contact.

[hubel458]

Do you have pictures of damaged wads,Ed

[btreanor]

Well week 4 of curing and still blow wads and no pattern. Starting to think buffer is needed under the bottom ball. The bottom ball punches thru the wad base where ever it is in contact.

I think I know what the problem might be. Dixie Slugs recommends putting a 20 gauge overshot card under the bottom ball in the orange wad. Here's an excerpt from one of the original threads:

"Another little trick in loading Tri-Ball.....drop a 20 gauge thin overshot disk into the bottom of the Orange Wad"

The key to the entire operation is to be sure there is no buffer under the bottom ball....or between the balls.
As the man says...try different choke constrictions! If you get two ball cutting out in the target, but one ball out a few inches....too tight a choke! Ideal is when the balls make a nice even triangle.
Regards, James

[savage308]

well I have shot the 28 gr load in my sons benneli nova and the 3" fiocchi hulls work fine with no ejection marks
on the bases and eject fine .the problem seems to be my 870 does not like the hulls and I am still
trying to find some 3" fed hulls to try.

[jhunter77]

Ed if you can shoot me a pm with email I will email pics of the wads

[hubel458]

Got pictures, saw the damage , it seems to be the sealing and seal strength.

What it looks like is the seal on the orange wads sent here are
smaller than bore, they are loose fit,
and the gases are blowing by tearing the sides
of the base lose
from the middle
that is under the ball, which is why I said would test only with
full size bpgs seals locked under the seal of the wadcup.They fit together

3 balls are really heavy load and the gases are trying to get the outside
of the wadcup moving faster than the middle under the ball. It is
cutting outside loose from the center under the ball

Remember in Ajay's thread he put hard cards in the middle of
the seal under seals, to add strength.
I don't think that would do here with the seal being small.ED

[cpileri]

Would adding the gas seal under the wad create an air pocket that would be "too large" and negatively affect flight? or would it just act like a big cushion section? or could we even trim the orange wad a bit so that the GS would still fit inside it but reduce the air pocket to a minimum?
Im just thinking out loud, as i didnt see any trouble w my loads w these wads.
C-

[hubel458]

The bpgs seal fit under and up into the orange wadcup seal tight,
the use of it being the sealing part of bpgs is bigger for proper fit.
To stop gases from blowing up past seals.