7.62x54r long range cast loads

[gutpile]

i have a mosin and its a shooter! its a 1943 Tula LONG barrel and with .312 j words it shoots 5/8 to 3/4 in at 100 yards. Now since it has a mint bore and fine crown. I want to make a cast shooter out of it.(slugs@ .3125 now the catch most load down for easy low recoil match loads(200 yrds and under) I want to go the opposite way i need full power cast loads to ring steel with @ 200 400 600 and 800 yards.... what i have lee c312-185-2r and c312-160 both cast around .315 i have a 314 push thru sizer. planning on TAC-1 lube with gaschecks and my alloy is COWW sweetened with 1% lino now can i air cool them? or do I need to waterdrop? or bake at 465 degrees and quench? and then there is load data i was thinking of working up higher end loads with 4831, 4895, 4350 or 5744 and no fillers? has any one done anything like this? or is there any other mold i should look at?

thanks gutpile

[Jack Stanley]

I think if you go with a heavier bullet those slow powders will respond better and give better velocity . That might be a good thing for the six and eight hundred yard line .

While I haven't tried real high velocity with my Mosin yet . I was able to get my 1903A3 with a two hundred grain bullet over twenty-three hundred feet per second . Accuracy is at least as good as ball ammo and I'm using Accurate Arms 3100 powder . I think your Mosin might perform about the same .

Another idea is ask the paper patch gang how to get the bullet you have moving fast and accurate .

Jack

[madsenshooter]

For the range you're wanting to shoot, I think you'd do good with NOE's 314365, 316365, or the 314299, 316299. Neither one is in stock at the moment, so I guess you'd be best working with your heavier bullet. Slower powder too to keep pressure within cast limits but producing enough gas to get the bullet moving. I'd bake the bullets at 450 for an hour then quench, after that leave em harden up for at least a couple weeks.

[303Guy]

I'm interested in your outcome. I want to do the same with one of my Lee Enfield's. I intend going as heavy as 220gr (200 ~ 220) and to use H4350 or slower. I have used 4350 for reasonably low loads but with Dacron positioner or wheat germ filler and then with paper patch but that was for a badly rust damaged bore. I have done firing tube tests with plain cast and H4350. However, the Brit case is somewhat smaller than the Rusky. I would hazard a guess that H4350 with a lighter boolit like you have and a long barrel might get you where you want to be with mild enough pressure without having too much free space in the case. I would tend to start at the minimum book starting load and work down until the pressure is low enough not to damage the boolit. But never go below the safe minimum loads for that powder and boolit. I'm not sure but I think the 60% case capacity rule might apply but you would not likely go anywhere near that low. But do double check what I've said before doing it yourself. These are just my thoughts!

[Outpost75]

I have not shot my Finn M39 past 300 metres, but NOE version of #314299 with borecriding nose of. 304" duameter and driving bands of. 314" diameter, cast of 7 lbs. Roto Metals linotype to 14 pounds if COWW, with either 30 grs. of RL7 or 36 grs. of 4895, 4064, RL15 or Varget are hard to beat.

[Duett]

I have not shot my Finn M39 past 300 metres, but NOE version of #314299 with borecriding nose of. 304" duameter and driving bands of. 314" diameter, cast of 7 lbs. Roto Metals linotype to 14 pounds if COWW, with either 30 grs. of RL7 or 36 grs. of 4895, 4064, RL15 or Varget are hard to beat.

Do you remember what sight settings you used when you were shooting at 300 meters?

With my 316299 and N110 I have about 600 meters sight setting at 150 meters. When I get the new NOE PP mould, I would like to use Vihtavuori N140 for 300 meters...

[Pb2au]

I have not shot my Finn M39 past 300 metres, but NOE version of #314299 with borecriding nose of. 304" duameter and driving bands of. 314" diameter, cast of 7 lbs. Roto Metals linotype to 14 pounds if COWW, with either 30 grs. of RL7 or 36 grs. of 4895, 4064, RL15 or Varget are hard to beat.

I am curious about two things. (slight thread hijack eminent)
1) Do you know the approximate velocity you are achieving with the 4895 loading?
2) Overall, what is your impression of your Finn? Fit, finish, bore etc.
Many thanks sir. Back to your regularly scheduled thread...........

[Larry Gibson]

gutpile

i have a mosin and its a shooter! its a 1943 Tula LONG barrel and with .312 j words it shoots 5/8 to 3/4 in at 100 yards. Now since it has a mint bore and fine crown. I want to make a cast shooter out of it.(slugs@ .3125 now the catch most load down for easy low recoil match loads(200 yrds and under) I want to go the opposite way i need full power cast loads to ring steel with @ 200 400 600 and 800 yards....

Assuming the "steel" targets are quite large at "400, 600 and 800 yards"...........?

what i have lee c312-185-2r and c312-160 both cast around .315 i have a 314 push thru sizer. planning on TAC-1 lube with gaschecks and my alloy is COWW sweetened with 1% lino now can i air cool them? or do I need to waterdrop? or bake at 465 degrees and quench? and then there is load data i was thinking of working up higher end loads with 4831, 4895, 4350 or 5744 and no fillers? has any one done anything like this? or is there any other mold i should look at?

Looking at another mould is probably a good idea.....or just stick with quality jacketed bullets.

"(H)igher end loads with 4831, 4895, 4350 or 5744 and no fillers"........wonder why there is no "load data" for such?.....probably a good reason.

"(H)as any one done anything like this?" Many have tried.............

You will find much better success with a 314299 cast of COWWs + 2% tin and WQ'd at 1850 - 2000 fps. Suggest the 4895, 4350 and 4831 powders and if load density is less than 80% use a Dacron filler. That will get you started in the right direction. HV cast bullet loads in 10" twist barrels takes some learning on how to do it. So far the questions in your post suggest you've a ways to go and a lot of learning to do.......if you really want to shoot cast bullets in your M91 at HV for long range shooting(?).

Larry Gibson

[madsenshooter]

Sounds like a good place for a caseful of WC 860, 870 or 872, with a heavy bullet. 57gr behind the Lee 312185 will get you 2090fps, according to Buckshot. Stuff is cheap too.

[Frank46]

Since your bore slugs out at .312 more or less try the 314299. I use this in my Finn M27 with 20.0 grs 4759, win wlp primers,javelina lube, and hansen cases. The hansen cases were the only ones available ( NNY headstamp) at the time. sized diameter .3135. as my 131 sizing die had rings when it was reamed out. Luckily I found a 313 reamer and reamed the rings out and had to polish it up to get a smooth surface. will do 2" at 100yds if my eyes cooperate. Frank

[gutpile]

my other mosins live on 24.0 5744 and the lee 185 with a gas check and LLA and do fine. I just want a flatter shooting cast load for this one. the 200 and 400 gongs are 8 inch the 600 and 800 are 12 and 18

[Larry Gibson]

[Ithe 600 and 800 are 12 and 18 ][/I]

That is 2 and 2.5 moa.............sometimes what we "want" and what we can get are two different things. My suggestion is to use a good bullet of 200 - 220 gr with a fairly high BC (for cast) and develop the most accurate load and depend on sight adjustment instead of "flatter shooting". Not what you want to hear but if a MN could hold 2.5 moa at 800 yards with a cast bullet at HV (say 2400+ fps) then many would be doing it. But you might as well give it a try.........suggest a strong alloyed bullet of good design, a slow burning powder and very anal casting and benchrest loading technique.......

Larry Gibson

[Eddie1971]

My Finn M39 loves the 314299 over 36 grains of W748.

[Bigslug]

I'm running the 316299 and 5744 in the .303 for a touch over 2000 fps. Pretty much duplicates the British MK1 through MK6 service load. I've fired the 314 version out of a friend's M39 Finn Mosin - granted at only 100 yards, but rather jaw-droppingly accurate for all of that. Had good luck with the 311 version in the .30-06. Kinda become my "accuracy without effort" profile.

I've ended up with basically WQWW + 2% tin, sizing the gas checks on, oven cooking, water quenching, and usually doing a double lube of Ben's Liquid or White Label 45/45/10 tumble paired with a final dose of Ben's Red in the grooves. Seems to work.

[Ray1946]

I think if I were you I would shoot for 1850-1950 fps and let you sights do the rest. When you do your testing and load development and have found that one-whole load; shoot 15 or 20 rnds and check for leading. Lots of well meaning folk develope 2,000 fps loads and brag about a fantastic 5-shot group, truth is the accuracy of that 5-shot group falls on its face if the group is extended to 7 or 10 shots. The real beauty of cast bullets is 1-whole accuracy with moderate loads and lots of accurate rnds down range before cleaning is needed.......................

[truckjohn]

That's a good point - pick a decent load with a decent bullet that doesn't go crazy when it passes trans-sonic and let your sights do the work.

One of my favorite MN loads is the 314299 over 16-20 grains of 2400. It's easy shooting and accurate for the distances I have shot it - out to 200 yards. You might be able to push it faster with IMR 4895/4064/Varget.

[andrew375]

I use the Lee bullet in my well worn mosin . Top velocity before accuracy disappears is around 2200 fps. This is with n110, n120, n140, d060. I won't give you the loads but just start with loads listed on here and work up until accuracy breaks down. The furthest distance I've shot this bullet is 300 yards, it is very wind sensitive.

[Larry Gibson]

my other mosins live on 24.0 5744 and the lee 185 with a gas check and LLA and do fine. I just want a flatter shooting cast load for this one. the 200 and 400 gongs are 8 inch the 600 and 800 are 12 and 18

Since we've not heard from the OP on his HV flatter shooting cast load quest in 5 years perhaps he didn't achieve his goal......?

[Ramson222]

Since we've not heard from the OP on his HV flatter shooting cast load quest in 5 years perhaps he didn't achieve his goal......?

Its alive

[702marine]

I am loading cast boolits for 7.62x54r. I have the LEE Mold C312-18-1R 185 Grain and the Lee 312-160-2. I use gas checks with both and power coating. I would love to get a good starting load for these that maybe others have used with any powders.

Also if at all possible I would like to get load data using these rounds with H380 and/or Ramshot Big Game. These two powders are what I have on hand right now. Everything is so crazy with getting powders and primers right now I don’t know if I will be able to find any 2400 or IMR. If I can use what I have on hand till things get a bit more predictable in acquiring reloading supplies that would be great... Thanks all!