44 Van Houten

[OlDeuce]

Doing more research on CUP and look what was hiding !!!! Not been a big fan of Winchester powders but I may be now LoL

[MT Chambers]

Be careful with some of the early Ackly loads, they are very heavy to very overly optimistic.

[OlDeuce]

Be careful with some of the early Ackly loads, they are very heavy to very overly optimistic.

Oh Yes I sure don't want to take the lid off my Old Winchester !! and Hurt Me !!!!! ?????????? wonder if Hodgdon did any testing on these
before putting them in there manual #26?????? Ol Deuce

[lar45]

Hi Duece, sounds like a great project. Is it a 444 chamber, or shortened.
Do you have Quickload? If not, I'd be more than happy to run some numbers with it.
I'd just need the water capacity of the case, case length, and bullet used with bullet length and COAL. If you send the powders you have on hand and are thinking about, I'll run them first.

[OlDeuce]

Hi Duece, sounds like a great project. Is it a 444 chamber, or shortened.
Do you have Quickload? If not, I'd be more than happy to run some numbers with it.
I'd just need the water capacity of the case, case length, and bullet used with bullet length and COAL. If you send the powders you have on hand and are thinking about, I'll run them first.

Lar45 this is way cool ok the water volume is 4ml right to the drop! the case is 2" with the rim it's 2.75 ! THE boolit is 209gr .429 & length
.660 ! the COAL is 2.380 ! ...........My on hand powders IMR3031,IMR4198,IMR4227,IMR700x,Unique,Hodgdon HS6, GOEX 3fff
the Winchester 748 powder may be the the one. My test fire was with IMR3031 @28.9gr with CCI 200 primer !!!!!! 12 to 14''low at the 75 yd target the chamber is 2.10 deep??

Thanks Ol Deuce

[lar45]

Hi Deuce, Sorry took me abit to get back to this.
Remember this is a computer simulation, not actual tested load data.
The Case capacity needs to be in grains of water. I put an empty case on a digital scale, zero it, then fill the case with water and weigh again.
Quickload has a capacity of 60gns H2O. Let me know if your case is different and I'll adjust it.

Cartridge : .44 Van Houten Super
Bullet : .429, 200, LEE 429-200-RF
Useable Case Capaci: 49.762 grain H2O = 3.231 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.380 inch = 60.45 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Winchester 748


Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !


Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms


-20.0 78 38.40 1530 1087 11040 1684 50.7 2.199
-18.0 80 39.36 1572 1147 11794 1776 52.3 2.137
-16.0 82 40.32 1615 1211 12591 1870 53.9 2.074
-14.0 84 41.28 1659 1277 13447 1965 55.5 2.012
-12.0 86 42.24 1703 1346 14360 2062 57.2 1.953
-10.0 88 43.20 1749 1419 15336 2159 58.9 1.895
-08.0 89 44.16 1795 1495 16380 2258 60.5 1.840
-06.0 91 45.12 1842 1574 17499 2357 62.2 1.785
-04.0 93 46.08 1889 1657 18699 2457 63.8 1.733
-02.0 95 47.04 1938 1743 19986 2556 65.5 1.683
+00.0 97 48.00 1987 1832 21368 2656 67.1 1.634
+02.0 99 48.96 2037 1925 22856 2755 68.8 1.587
+04.0 101 49.92 2087 2021 24458 2853 70.4 1.541
+06.0 103 50.88 2138 2122 26185 2951 72.0 1.496
+08.0 105 51.84 2190 2225 28053 3047 73.6 1.452
+10.0 107 52.80 2242 2333 30071 3142 75.1 1.410

[lar45]

Cartridge : .44 Van Houten Super
Bullet : .429, 200, LEE 429-200-RF
Useable Case Capaci: 49.762 grain H2O = 3.231 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.380 inch = 60.45 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : IMR 3031


Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !


Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms


-20.0 78 33.60 1413 927 8813 1487 49.0 2.409
-18.0 80 34.44 1451 978 9358 1570 50.6 2.346
-16.0 82 35.28 1490 1030 9934 1656 52.2 2.284
-14.0 84 36.12 1529 1086 10546 1745 53.8 2.225
-12.0 86 36.96 1569 1143 11193 1838 55.5 2.167
-10.0 88 37.80 1610 1202 11881 1932 57.2 2.111
-08.0 90 38.64 1651 1264 12610 2028 58.9 2.053
-06.0 92 39.48 1693 1330 13383 2125 60.6 1.997
-04.0 94 40.32 1735 1398 14204 2222 62.3 1.942
-02.0 96 41.16 1779 1468 15076 2320 64.0 1.890
+00.0 98 42.00 1823 1542 16004 2419 65.7 1.838
+02.0 100 42.84 1868 1619 16989 2517 67.4 1.788
+04.0 102 43.68 1913 1698 18038 2616 69.1 1.740
+06.0 104 44.52 1959 1781 19155 2714 70.7 1.693
+08.0 106 45.36 2005 1866 20344 2811 72.4 1.648
+10.0 108 46.20 2052 1954 21614 2907 74.0 1.604

[lar45]

Cartridge : .44 Van Houten Super
Bullet : .429, 200, LEE 429-200-RF
Useable Case Capaci: 49.762 grain H2O = 3.231 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.380 inch = 60.45 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : IMR 4198


Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !


Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms


-20.0 80 32.80 1810 1520 15742 2160 76.3 1.836
-18.0 82 33.62 1854 1595 16748 2243 77.8 1.785
-16.0 84 34.44 1898 1672 17811 2325 79.3 1.737
-14.0 86 35.26 1942 1751 18933 2407 80.7 1.690
-12.0 88 36.08 1987 1832 20118 2487 82.0 1.645
-10.0 90 36.90 2031 1915 21370 2566 83.3 1.602
-08.0 92 37.72 2076 1999 22679 2644 84.6 1.560
-06.0 94 38.54 2120 2086 24091 2720 85.8 1.520
-04.0 96 39.36 2165 2174 25568 2794 87.0 1.482
-02.0 98 40.18 2209 2264 27134 2867 88.2 1.445
+00.0 100 41.00 2253 2356 28788 2937 89.3 1.409
+02.0 102 41.82 2297 2449 30540 3005 90.3 1.375
+04.0 104 42.64 2341 2544 32395 3070 91.3 1.341

************************************************** *****
Cartridge : .44 Van Houten Super
Bullet : .429, 200, LEE 429-200-RF
Useable Case Capaci: 49.762 grain H2O = 3.231 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.380 inch = 60.45 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : IMR 4227

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 78 32.80 1992 1842 20575 2401 86.7 1.631
-18.0 80 33.62 2039 1929 21952 2476 87.9 1.585
-16.0 82 34.44 2084 2016 23409 2549 89.0 1.542
-14.0 84 35.26 2130 2106 24952 2620 90.1 1.501
-12.0 86 36.08 2176 2196 26588 2688 91.2 1.461
-10.0 88 36.90 2221 2289 28321 2755 92.1 1.423
-08.0 90 37.72 2266 2383 30158 2818 93.1 1.387
-06.0 92 38.54 2311 2478 32108 2880 93.9 1.352

[lar45]

Cartridge : .44 Van Houten Super
Bullet : .429, 200, LEE 429-200-RF
Useable Case Capaci: 49.762 grain H2O = 3.231 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.380 inch = 60.45 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Alliant UNIQUE


Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !


Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms


-20.0 41 12.00 1538 1098 15500 1045 100.0 1.993
-18.0 42 12.30 1560 1129 16189 1066 100.0 1.957
-16.0 43 12.60 1581 1161 16892 1088 100.0 1.921
-14.0 44 12.90 1603 1192 17609 1109 100.0 1.888
-12.0 45 13.20 1623 1223 18340 1130 100.0 1.856
-10.0 46 13.50 1644 1254 19086 1152 100.0 1.825
-08.0 47 13.80 1665 1286 19846 1173 100.0 1.796
-06.0 48 14.10 1685 1317 20620 1194 100.0 1.768
-04.0 49 14.40 1704 1348 21408 1215 100.0 1.741
-02.0 50 14.70 1724 1380 22210 1236 100.0 1.715
+00.0 51 15.00 1744 1411 23027 1256 100.0 1.690
+02.0 52 15.30 1763 1442 23858 1277 100.0 1.666
+04.0 53 15.60 1782 1473 24703 1298 100.0 1.643
+06.0 54 15.90 1800 1504 25563 1318 100.0 1.621
+08.0 55 16.20 1819 1536 26437 1339 100.0 1.599
+10.0 56 16.50 1837 1567 27325 1359 100.0 1.578

************************************************** ************

Cartridge : .44 Van Houten Super
Bullet : .429, 200, LEE 429-200-RF
Useable Case Capaci: 49.762 grain H2O = 3.231 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.380 inch = 60.45 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon HS-6


Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !


Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms


-20.0 35 16.00 1636 1242 16377 1233 100.0 1.892
-18.0 36 16.40 1660 1279 17158 1256 100.0 1.855
-16.0 37 16.80 1685 1317 17959 1279 100.0 1.820
-14.0 38 17.20 1709 1355 18781 1302 100.0 1.786
-12.0 39 17.60 1732 1392 19625 1325 100.0 1.754
-10.0 40 18.00 1755 1430 20489 1347 100.0 1.723
-08.0 41 18.40 1778 1467 21375 1370 100.0 1.694
-06.0 41 18.80 1801 1505 22282 1393 100.0 1.665
-04.0 42 19.20 1823 1542 23212 1415 100.0 1.638
-02.0 43 19.60 1845 1580 24163 1437 100.0 1.612
+00.0 44 20.00 1867 1617 25137 1460 100.0 1.587
+02.0 45 20.40 1888 1655 26134 1482 100.0 1.563
+04.0 46 20.80 1910 1692 27153 1504 100.0 1.540
+06.0 47 21.20 1931 1730 28196 1525 100.0 1.518
+08.0 48 21.60 1951 1767 29263 1547 100.0 1.496
+10.0 48 22.00 1972 1805 30353 1569 100.0 1.476

[OlDeuce]

WoW Lar45 this is very interesting !!!! I'm going to study this and figure out my next move ......Thank You Sir!!!!

Ol Deuce

[lar45]

The Win 748 looked interesting. You could load a slightly compressed load of 50gns and get 2100fps at 25,000 psi. Lots of speed and completely safe pressures for the regular 1894 action.

[OlDeuce]

The Win 748 looked interesting. You could load a slightly compressed load of 50gns and get 2100fps at 25,000 psi. Lots of speed and completely safe pressures for the regular 1894 action.

Lar45 thank you for the help!!!! I went back and scaled my water volume 4ml weighted out to 64gr!!!!!

Ol Deuce

[nekshot]

I am not a gunsmith genius but I would make that barrel work and shortening it might be the ticket. I had a Timber 444 in wood but the kid swiped it for his! Now I need another one!

[OlDeuce]

I am not a gunsmith genius but I would make that barrel work and shortening it might be the ticket. I had a Timber 444 in wood but the kid swiped it for his! Now I need another one!

Yes you do ! when I'm done testing I should have 3 good shooters ! I call it a 44-56WC 20", 26", 30"+

Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

Went powder shopping on Friday bought 3Lbs. of W748 for $63 bucks ..........Ol Deuce

[lar45]

Wow, what an excellent price.

[Fishman]

A thought occurs to me and I apologize if I am being too simplistic.

Have you tried chambering a .444 marlin to see if it actually fits? Perhaps the barrel just has a lengthened throat to reduce pressures?

[OlDeuce]

A thought occurs to me and I apologize if I am being too simplistic.

Have you tried chambering a .444 marlin to see if it actually fits? Perhaps the barrel just has a lengthened throat to reduce pressures?

Fishman...........Thats a good thought ! The action throw is to short to handle the length of the un-fired .444 round and also levering the round got hung up on the front of the shell ....you maybe could man it in but that isn't the way it should work! It all needs to work as smooth as silk ! Keeping the case length a 2.080'' of less is best!!!

OL Deuce

[OlDeuce]

Going to cut the chamber in this 26'' Octagon this afternoon!!!

Ol Deuce

[MostlyLeverGuns]

The cartridge guides on a Win 94 fit a .30-30 closely for a very controlled feed. A .444 would not come up out of unchanged Win 94 cartridge guides very smoothly, if at all. The cartridge guides may need to be relieved to feed the wider case body. Even the slightly wider .303 Savage can get caught in the unmodified cartridge guides that are made for the 30-30. The Marlin cartridge carrier is designed much differently.