Help with 45acp load

[osteodoc08]

I traded some brass with a member here in 45. Cleaned it and set up my LnL. Trying to duplicate GI ball ammo. Have Raniers 230gr copper coated bullets from years ago on the shelf. Brass deprimed, sized, loaded with 5.5gr 231 and OAL set to 1.270".

Now the problem. I can't get the crimp right. I'm using a hornady 3 die set with a seperate taper crimp. I have the combo seating/crimp die backed out so it only seats. If I set the crimp too light, I can push the bullet down into the case with my thumb. Too much and I swage the bullet and can rotate the bullet and can actually pull it out a little with my fingers. Sometimes I think it's set well and the bullet won't rotate or press into the case, but the next one will. I've tried adjusting the flare die and even not even use it. No change.

I've seperated brass by head stamp and Winchester seems to be most consistent. But still get "rejects" where I can push the bullet in with my thumb or it's swaged down and can rotate and pull it out a little. With the same settings!

Just for kicks, I grabbed a 250gr XTP for my 45 colt and it worked fine. I'm about to pull my hair out using these plated bullets.

Is it the brass? The bullets? Me?

My taper crimp diameter is .470 to .471 on the "good" ones. Same as the "rejects". Case length is in spec, but they're not trimmed to all the same length.

Anyone wanna trade plated bullets of mine for jacketed 3:2?

[StratsMan]

Did you measure the diameter of the Rainiers??? I used them for years, never had a problem...

[rodsvet]

Mic the cases after you size. Sounds like they are not sizing down enough or the bullets are too small in diameter. Use a micrometer or quality caliper. It has to be something simple like that. I assume you have sized 45 before with you size die?? Do those things and let us know what you find out. Rod

[MtGun44]

I always TC to .466-.468 at least, sometimes a bit tighter.

Bill

[Echo]

My guess is that the plated bullets are pure Pb, and thus, when swaged down by the TC die, don't spring back. May be an unsolvable problem, short of using different boolits. And it sounds as though the expander/beller may be expanding too much, so there is little neck tension. But then, if the Ranier bullets are pure Pb...

[osteodoc08]

Brand new dies from Hornady.

I tried without using the expander. Better, but same issues.

I pulled the bullets and were obviously swaged down even at a TC diameter of .470 which should be plenty. If I taper crimp any more than that it is obvious that it is swaging down and if I do, while I can't push the bullet in, I can pull it out about .010 with my fingers

I have no idea how many times fired the brass was, but it looks better than most of my brass I've used quite a bit. I checked the brass length and it was .890 for almost all of them.

I think I'm gonna sell these ranier plated bullets and buy some jacketed and cast some out of COWW. My understanding is that the ranier bullets are pure lead underneath.

Their diameter was .451 with a mid grade electronic caliper.

I did try that 45 colt XTP sized at .452 and it was looking good with no movement of the bullet.

[osteodoc08]

Perhaps the used brass is past it's useful life?

I took 5 known 2x fired brass, ran it through and it seemed ok. Bullet seated well and I could even feel good neck tension when seating it. I'll dig around for known brass and see where things go later today since it's after midnight. Gotta get a few hours sleep.

[Cmm_3940]

What you are describing should work, so it must be something simple. Are you measuring the TC right at the rim of the case? If so, either your brass may be fatigued or the Ranier bullets are sized wrong. I shoot Berry's 230 RN, which should be the same as the Ranier, with a .470 TC without issue. I just checked, and although the Berry's are nominally .452 , they actually measure .451 just like the Ranier. I'd probably try different brass at this point.

Here's a question I don't know the answer to - Are all TC dies created equal? I'm using the standard RCBS carbide 3 die set.

[knifemaker]

Try switching to X-Treme plated bullets. They are .452 in Dia. not .451 like Rainer or Berry's. I have used X-Treme for years and I am 100% satisfied with their performance. X-Treme Bullets have a web site and the prices listed include the shipping price. If you have the same problem after using X-Treme bullets, then I would look at your reloading dies being the problem.

[gtgeorge]

Berry bullets are very soft and likely your problem. I do not length size pistol brass but in your case may need to be separated and sized to get things uniform since some work and some don't with the same setting. I bought 1 batch of Berry early on and never again but then I only shoot cast in pistols now.

[6bg6ga]

I question the taper crimp die. Have tried other dies in the past but only use the Dillon or RCBS dies now. The result is everything I taper crimp gets a nice tight crimp and accuracy is good. I also use the powder dropper unit from the bullet dropper people. The dropper has be re-engineered to give you just enough to open up the mouth of the case for easy bullet insertion.

Brass old? No, I ve used a lot of military brass from 1962 and older without a problem.

[osteodoc08]

I'm gonna see if my buddy has a micrometer to measure these bullets. The more I think about it, I wonder if they're undersized. Even if I size the case and NO flare, if I seat to max OAL, I can still press them into the casing. That just isn't right.

I've got some factory stuff and some with 200 gr LSWC I'm gonna pull and reload them with my set up to see if it's me, set up or the bullets

[dudel]

IIRC, Berry's are swaged then plated, so yes, soft lead. That said, I've loaded them for years without a problem (even your 230gr RN). I suspect your brass may a bit be too used.

[Grandpas50AE]

Try switching to X-Treme plated bullets. They are .452 in Dia. not .451 like Rainer or Berry's. I have used X-Treme for years and I am 100% satisfied with their performance. X-Treme Bullets have a web site and the prices listed include the shipping price. If you have the same problem after using X-Treme bullets, then I would look at your reloading dies being the problem.

I had the same problem as the OP when I was using the Ranier a few years ago. Switched to X-Treme and no more problems.

[USAFrox]

I don't bother to crimp my .45, and I've never had a problem. I have my seater die set to take out the flare after seating the bullet, and that's all. I don't worry about putting on a super crimp. By the way, I've loaded up around 1500 of those same Ranier bullets with no problems doing this. Why not try it without a crimp?

[osteodoc08]

I'm ending the madness. Bullets for sale under swap and sell

[newmexicocrawler]

I stopped crimping my 45s because of problems like this. I have a Dillon 650 and I only seat them on the Dillon then I take them all to the single stage and run them through bulge buster...haven't had a problem in thousand and thousands of rounds.

[6bg6ga]

I stopped crimping my 45s because of problems like this. I have a Dillon 650 and I only seat them on the Dillon then I take them all to the single stage and run them through bulge buster...haven't had a problem in thousand and thousands of rounds.

You don't taper crimp your 45's?

In my mind that is shear madness.

Ever seen a blown up gun? I saw a 40 that some reloader didn't crimp the bullets good enough in and apparently the bullet went partially back into the case. When the round was fired excess pressure was the result and the rest is history. The demise of a good gun.

[gefiltephish]

Proper neck tension is due to proper case sizing and then expanding to suit the bullet. For soft bullets, I find .001-.002 interference is usually sufficient. Taper crimping is just to flatten out any case mouth flare to ensure the cartridge chambers.

Just for example: I recently found that my R-P 38spl brass does not provide adequate neck tension. I believe this is due to thinner walls than all the other brass I have. In order to use these I would have to find, or have custom made, an undersize sizing die and a custom expander plug (m-die).

[Dale53]

gefiltephish maybe has the answer. I will NOT use Remington brass in my various .45 ACP's simply because it is too thin to get adequate bullet tension.

My favorite brass is military - you DO have to swage the primer pockets but that is only a one time thing. I have successfully used Winchester and Federal commercial brass, also, without problems.

The O.P. needs to check his brass and see if it is Remington. The bullets may work fine with proper brass. For the record, I taper crimp to a loaded mouth diameter of .470" and get EXCELLENT results on my 1911's as well as my 625's.

FWIW
Dale53