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Thread: 1911 Throating

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    1911 Throating

    About once a month a new thread appears concerning the use of cast boolits in a 1911. IMHO the majority of the problems with failure to go fully into battery, or leading in the first inch of the barrel, when folks first try cast in their 1911 result from the lack of throating in many newer production line models. As I recently needed to throat a barrel for a commander build I was completing for my wife, I decided to take a few pictures and post this thread explaining this simple process. Maybe it would make a suitable "sticky"

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    These are the boolits that I use in all of my 1911s. My goal is always that they function reliably without any leading. The lineup is a H&G #68 style SWC, the BDacp and a group buy HP version of the BDacp

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    Here is the BDacp sized .451 and dropped into a very tight 1911 chamber (bore is .449) easy to see that it is not going to allow the pistol to go completely into battery. In this barrel the HP BDacp and the #68 did better, but still did not fully seat.

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    This pick is the BDacp after throating. This is what I want to see, the head of the case just slightly below the barrel hood

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    Here is what is required: A 1911 throating reamer and handle, and a little cutting oil.

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    This is a closeup of the end of the chamber prior to throating it. Note the abrupt sharp edge at the end of the chamber, and the abrupt square start of the lands. In most barrels all that is needed is to slope the start of the lands just a bit. As this chamber is very tight, and the bore only .449, the reamer will also put a bevel on the end of the chamber. The real issue with most leading in the first inch of the barrel is that you simply can't shove a .452 object through a .450 hole, when both have square edges, without shaving off some lead. Rifles have "ball throats", revolvers have "forcing cones" and before the advent of CNC mass produced 1911s, nearly all nonmilitary 1911s had someone spend the 20 seconds needed to throat the barrel before it left the factory.

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    This is a closeup of the end of the chamber after throating. If you click on this pic it will get big enough to really see what's going on. Note the taper on the end of the lands and the bevel at the end of the chamber. In a barrel that slugged .4505 - .451, (the more common dimension I see in modern 1911s), you would barely be able to discern the bevel at the end of the chamber. In a .452 bore, the reamer would only touch the lands. It's about 30 seconds work to get to this point. This particular reamer has been used between 30 and 40 times, and I've lent it out 7 or 8 times, so it is not as sharp, and does not cut as clean as it once did. It is also apparent that it was back turned at some point, (rotated counterclockwise while in contact with the lands, a definite no-no), so it's probably ready for retirement.

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    Bore slug for this barrel.

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    Throat slug. I do this by starting a soft lead ball into the throat, then I stand the barrel up with a 3/8" brass rod in the barrel against the ball while I tap the ball a few times with another brass rod from the chamber end. This embosses the end of the chamber on the ball so when I tap it back out I have a definite point at which to measure the throat. .452 is all the reamer will do, if you over do the reaming, you just get a little longer section at .452 I prefer just enough throat to allow my boolits to enter the very start of the barrel so they are centered up before they get the big kick in the rear sending them on their way.

    I am going to try and embed a link to a short 20 second vid that junkyard was kind enough to put on U-tube for me. I don't know if it will work or not. If not, maybe junk could put it in a response to this thread.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6FX...ature=youtu.be

    Ok, the link seems to work! My wife is demanding film credits for shooting the short clip, "Thanks Claudine!". In any event, this is a very quick and easy process. The key being to use plenty of cutting oil, and take your time to feel for the very start of the lands before you try and turn the reamer. NEVER turn the reamer backwards against the lands as this will turn down the very fine, sharp leading edges of the reamer.

    BD
    Last edited by BD; 02-23-2014 at 12:50 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    I've worked on 3 barrels recently due to very short/abrupt throats. Two were OEM barrels and one was an aftermarket.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks for sharing!!! I am going to have to take a look at the barrel on my RIA compact when I get home. Had an small issue with it at the range yesterday and this could very well be why.
    “To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment.”― Ralph Waldo Emerson

  4. #4
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    I have a Bar-sto barrel in one of my 1911s that was very finicky about what it would shoot. Turns out that it had essentially NO throat whatsoever! After reaming it a bit, it works just like its supposed to. First time I had encountered this particular problem in a 1911; now I look for it.
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  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy Certaindeaf's Avatar
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    This is great.. thanks!
    Sent from my computer using my fingers.

  6. #6
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    Great thread and photos!

    This pic is looking down a Kahr barrel from one of their poly framed CW-45 pistols, afaik their barrels are made by Walther. This one has a match grade chamber, very tight on the dimensions, it will cycle factory ammo all day but will not fully chamber any .452" boolit despite the excellent workmanship inside the throat. For the size of the pistol, it is surprisingly accurate. Instead of fighting it, I just feed it plated boolits sized .451" and it's happy all day.


  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    BD, great post and pictures! You know what you are talking about!
    Maker of Silver Boolits for Werewolf hunting

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    DougGuy,
    I size all of my boolits for 1911s .451 There is no need to size to .452 unless your bore slugs more than .451
    BD

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy junkpile's Avatar
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6FXZEfNCmU

    Here is the video to accompany the pictures and description. Would have posted this earlier, didn't realize it went straight to sticky status. I am unable to get the video embedded in a post.

  10. #10
    bhn22
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    FWIW, this also the likely cause of so much unhappiness with Springfield XDs and cast bullets, especially 9mm & 40 Short & Whimpy.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    I had this same problem with a Para-Ord single stack 45ACP that I bought a couple of years ago. I essentially couldn't shoot anything other than 230gr Ball since all my 45 cast boolits wouldn't allow full chambering. Finally I made up several dummy cartridges with each of my 45 cast boolits - 125 gr spire point, 185 gr spire point, 200 gr #68, MiHec's HP 45 boolits, SAECO and Lee 225/230 gr truncated cone and RCBS 230 gr #34 RN - and took them in to a gunsmith who's done several small jobs such as this for me in the past. Testing each of the dummy cartridges, he carefully throated that barrel so that all of them would chamber completely and the cost was less than $20 for the job. I doubt that I could have either purchased or rented a throating reamer for that price so I feel it was worth it to have him do it rather than tackling the job myself. Oh, and that pistol works fine now, with no hangups when using most of the tested boolits with the exception of the lighter spire point boolits with which I will infrequently have a FTF problem.

    sleeper1428

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    The reamer is $40 from Brownells, (you'll need a handle as well if you don't already own one), the process takes about 30 seconds, (after your first one, which might take 60 seconds).

    Watch the video, it's very short.

    I'd say $20 to a competent smith is more than fair. If you are not "handy", paying a smith is wise.

    If you have, or are going to have, more than one or two .45acp barrels it is probably worth buying the tool.
    BD

  13. #13
    Boolit Master detox's Avatar
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    Is this the reamer you are talking about? $70.00

    513-051-459wb (N99845M)

    http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-to...?sku=513051459

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Nope that looks like a chamber reamer, It's the one below:
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    Here's the number:
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    All it does is bevel the ends of the lands, and the end of the chamber just a bit if the bore is less than .452
    BD

  15. #15
    Boolit Master


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    I have two 1911s that aren't terribly accurate, even by pistol standards. I realize that pistol accuracy is far more complex than simply worrying about the barrel itself (there's fit to the barrel bushing, locking lug fit, and so on) but I have considered rebarreling one or both of them, and am curious: is there any particular aftermarket barrel that has proven to be more cast-friendly than others, i.e. properly throated out of the box?

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy c1skout's Avatar
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    Thanks for the breakdown, would the same be involved for a 45acp revolver cylinder?

  17. #17
    Boolit Master detox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C. Latch View Post
    is there any particular aftermarket barrel that has proven to be more cast-friendly than others, i.e. properly throated out of the box?
    Good question. Leading and bullet design is the number one cause of inaccuracy.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master ACrowe25's Avatar
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    IMO a lot of feeding issues can be solved with a PROPER crimp. Many people say to barely crimp. while it works for some that's perfect. If your having feeding issues try tightening the crimp a little more. Works well for me.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    I've had to do a dozen or so of these so far with the same reamer BD posted a pic of. Works well. Last one done was my Springfield XDs 45. Doesn't seam to be a problem with ball rounds or most factory loads. Sure shows up using cast boolits fast though. Well worth doing.
    Chris

  20. #20
    Boolit Master AnthonyB's Avatar
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    BD:
    You just cost me $60 from Brownells. I have three XDs 45s I think this will help.
    Tony

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