H110 vs Unique in a 44mag

[.429]

i loaded up some 240gr jsp with 23.5gr of H110 today and shot them out of my rifle and over my chrono. i was surprised to find that they only averaged 50fps faster than the same bullet with 13gr of Unique. the H110 had a noticeable amount more recoil. the h110 had an extreme spread of 50fps, but the Unique had an extreme spread of only 7fps!! also, H110 is a real pain in the a$$ to meter, whereas Unique meters much easier. a bottle of Unique is cheaper and with only 13gr vs 23.5gr it will last much longer for sure. this all surprised me even more because i figured the H110 would really shine in the 22" barrel and being a slower burn rate compared to the Unique. with the lighter recoil, economy, easy metering, and consistancy in fps, i think i just might try to trade off the 1.5lbs of h110 that i have left

[Larry Gibson]

Not all that surprising.

Though you might want to revisit that 13 gr Unique load under a 240 JSP. Depending on who's manual you look at it is 1 - 3 gr over max for the 44 magnum. Having pressure tested up to 12 gr Unique under a 240 XTP in the 44 Magnum I can say that Lyman's max load (that's what it is) is definitely a max load. A load of 11 gr would be more like it and would at least keep all the psi's under the SAAMI PMAP.

That 23.5 gr H110 load is .5 - 1.3 gr under max for that bullet.

Over a max load for the one and under the max load for the other would certainly account for the lack of disparity between the loads.

Larry Gibson

[.429]

my Lyman manual lists 13gr Unique as a max load and i'm not having any pressure problems. also, my Lee book lists the H110 as 23gr min and 24gr max. i respectivly disagree with ur reply

[Larry Gibson]

Okay, so which Lyman manual? I'm looking at the 49th edition, printed April 2010, page 302 for the 44 magnum in a rifle and page 377 for in a revolver; both list 12 gr Unique as max load with a 240 gr JSP. You might note also that on page 302 for the rifle there is exactly 300 fps difference between the Unique load and a max load of H110. That should tell you something.

And, as I stated, I have also measured the pressure myself; Lyman is correct. The 12 gr load of Unique is a max load. Lyman lists 11.7 gr Unique as max with a 240 gr cast and I'd believe that one too if you like Unique in the 44 magnum. I think you'll find the Lee manual shows 10 gr as a max load of Unique. Speer and Hornady's latest manuals do not list any loads with Unique (another clue). You can respectfully disagree but perhaps a double check on current data may be in order? Just trying to keep you and your guns safe is all.

Larry Gibson

[bhn22]

My Lyman "Pistol & Revolver Handbook" shows 11.5 gr of Unique to be tops for a 240 gr jacketed bullet. My Hornady manual shows 10.7 gr of Unique. Sierra shows 12.1 gr, and Alliant, the manufacturer of Unique shows 10.3 as maximum for that jacketed bullet weight. How old is your Lyman manual? Handgun pressures seem to be derated more and more as time goes by.

[btroj]

What they said. Get a newer manual. Please

Unique is a fine powder for mid range loads in a 44 mag but if it is giving velocities even close to H110 either the H110 load is low or the Unique load is high.

No such thing as a free lunch.

[fredj338]

Several of my 44 stick with a Unique load over 12gr. So 13gr, yeah charging hard on max, why? If you have pressure room with Unique, you probably do with H110 as well. Generally, H110 will give 100fps+ vs a max load of Unique. In short 3" bbls, things get closer, why I have pretty much given up on H110 but for long 7"-8" bbls.

[longbow]

While I cannot pressure test, field results convinced me long ago that Unique is best suited to shorter barrels and moderate loads. I started my .44 mag. shooting with a Marlin 1894, Lyman 429421 (mistake in that gun!) and Unique. Having perused a few loading manuals (mostly handgun data) it appeared that Unique was a pretty good all around powder for the .44 mag and as you noted, economical, but in fact the Unique loads in the Marlin were quite lackluster in comparison to factory ammunition.

Next I tried IMR4227 with noticeable increase in performance and flatter shooting. I tried H110 as well and while I think it produce a little more velocity with max. loads, I have other uses for 4227 so it has become my powder of choice for the .44 using boolits of 240 gr. and up.

In my experience Unique doesn't come close to either IMR4227 or H110 in the Marlin for upper end loads. Now that I have a chronograph I guess I should do some comparison shooting to check actual velocities but both H110 and IMR4227 shot much flatter than Unique (at 12.5 grs. Unique IIRC).

My experience anyway.

By the way, my old Hornady manual listed hefty powder charges for .44 mag that I for not see anymore. Heed the advice given on max load of Unique.

Longbow

[243winxb]

H110 is a real pain in the a$$ to meter, whereas Unique meters much easier.

A$$ backwards imo. (reversed). 13 gr. Unique. HOT.

[bhn22]

Off the charts, at least for the newer Unique, and the latest pressure data.

[Mal Paso]

H110 meters like a dream, it's Unique that meters like gravel. Maybe something else is backwards.

[David2011]

While there are many factors that affect perceived recoil your launched weight includes the weight of the powder. H110 is adding 10.5 grains to the total weight over Unique. Do you have any 2400 to try for a comparison? It works well for heavier charges in .44 Mag.

David

[dragon813gt]

H110 meters like a dream, it's Unique that meters like gravel. Maybe something else is backwards.

I don't load 44mag so I can't comment on the load data. But something is wrong if H110 isn't metering right for you. The stuff flows like water. It is very fine and can gum up some measures but that's a quick fix.

[.429]

I don't load 44mag so I can't comment on the load data. But something is wrong if H110 isn't metering right for you. The stuff flows like water. It is very fine and can gum up some measures but that's a quick fix.

i suppose the metering is fine. the gumming up and leaking is what i'm not enjoying about it

[MtGun44]

"newer Unique" - baloney. Unique is Unique, no changes in the powder
other than the standard lot to lot variation seen in all powders.

Widely reported old wives tale.

Bill

[Larry Gibson]

"newer Unique" - baloney. Unique is Unique, no changes in the powder
other than the standard lot to lot variation seen in all powders.

Widely reported old wives tale.

Bill

Have to agree with Bill. Unique is still the same and other than the normal lot to lot variations (quite consistent with Unique though and such variations are low) "newer" Unique is the same as old Unique. What is different is the method of measuring pressure. The old method, C.U.P., only measured the peak pressure. Newer peizo-transducers in test fixtures with test barrels give us a much more complete picture of the time/pressure curve. Train gauges on actual commercial firearms additionally give us a much better picture of the total time/pressure curve in the firearms actually used. What is now found out with the better methods of measuring pressures is with many old recommended loads the pressures are actually higher than thought; high enough to potentially cause damage. That is why we see a reduction of some max loads with some powders in newer manuals.

Larry Gibson

[cbrick]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is accuracy. Try benching that 44 & group both the Unique & H-110 loads at 50 yards, you'll see a huge difference there.

Unique in a mag case is best served with light for caliber bullets & lower velocities. In NRA National Championship Long Range Revolver (200 meters) 23.5 Gr. H-110 with 240 gr bullets has won more championships than all other loads combined. In fact it is so common in long range it is known as the house load.

Larry is 100% correct, you are treading on very thin ice with your Unique load, in the interest of safety you really should consider backing it down. In the interest of accuracy you really should consider using the H-110 load unless of course your only goal is to make a bang, the Unique will certainly give you that, perhaps even a bit more bang than you bargained for.

The Unique load isn't cheaper if you consider the possibility of the replacement cost of the gun.

Rick

[44man]

Attachment 94914I found a picture that might apply.

[44MAG#1]

Some overloads are safe depending on the gun and the pressure levels the SAAMI specs on pressure is stated for the cartridge.
Not all overloads are unsafe in some guns but are in others.
Overloads being defined as over SAAMI specs.
In this aforementioned case it is an overload.
This is not a debateable statement if anyone will just think.

[.429]

ok, the 13gr max def didn't come out of my Lyman 49th book as it does list 12gr as max (my apologies there). idk if i misread the book or if i got it somewhere else. i have used max loads before but NEVER go over max (on purpose anyway). i will back this load down to be within specs of the Lyman 49th book. i am shooting these loads out of a couple of heavy built guns, but i may disassemble them anyway just to be safe. thanks for pointing this out to me but i think some of you have misunderstood my original intent with this thread. i simply wanted to see how a hot load of Unique would compare to H110 because the H110 is such a pain to use (much more expensive as well). i havn't done any benchrest shooting yet, but both of the loads are very accurate....like minute of rabbit (50yrds, standing, open sights).