.36 cal for 300 yards?

[seekersoftheredmist]

Sounds Fun and interesting Squeeze. Let me know how it project progresses and if and when you get it completed! Good luck with the build!!

[seekersoftheredmist]

Now to clear the SMOKE in here.... OBVIOUSLY some have had there glutimus maximus chapped over something i said..... ? still cant figure that out but anyhow.... To those that have responded with their firsthand knowledge thanks and i will be watching for more advice from you. Let me say this, i am NOT a "noob" nor a novice to black powder and or guns! been shooting them and fixing them ( im the gunsmith here at the gunshop here in town) for many years. Most of the Whitetail I kill are with a smoke pole. Most of them are beyond the 200 yard mark. All of them ( knock on wood and thank the Lord) have either fell where they were standing or went no further than 40 yards and then piled up. Some of these were from inline, some were from side hammer. From experience a few summers ago i tested a maxiball shot into 3 water jugs and then behind that wet newspaper. the 45 cal boolit went through all the filled milk jugs and into 2 inches of newsprint flattening out very very well. ( thats a lot of penetration for 85 grains of powder) seeing that made a believer out of me as to just how far these guns can shoot and perform. I have however never shot a 36 cal at a distance over 150 yards and that seemed rather monotonous as the hits were rather easy as we were shooting cantaloupes at those distances. My sons and i like to shoot regularly and enjoy finding out just how accurate they can be. It is MY desire BEFORE i purchase OR Build a long rifle ( kentucky style "ish") to have some folks let me know of their experiences in shooting them at longer distance. Now I in NO WAY want to offend any one ( shouldnt even have to type that, we are grown men for petes sake.. but alas..) If you have not shot a .36 cal at distances over 150 yards, tested the penetration at said distances and further, taken game with said gun at said distances, then thanks for the comments but i am truly looking for those who have "been there , done that". to everyone else: Thanks for commenting on my post and have a great time shooting these ole guns that we all love! God bless!

[Bullshop]

The Irish teem used MLs at the Creedmoor matches and if I recall correctly only lost to the US team Shooting Sharps and Rolling Blocks. by one point. They were shooting 45 caliber but they were also shooting to 1000 yards.
The biggest issue is not if a 36 would be accurate enough or powerful enough because with a properly built gun, sights, load, and boolit it will be. The issue is shot placement made difficult at longer range by a very steep trajectory.
Just like in long range high power shooting if we know the precise range and the trajectory of our load if it is within the capability of our sights we can dial in the range and quite easily make the shot.
The principle is no different than what SHOOTERS are doing in Afghanistan. All you need is a way to precisely measure the range and if you are up on your homework with learning your trajectory shot placement to your 300 yard mark should be no big deal.
A 35 or 36 cal boolit of soft lead of about 200 to 300 grain with an impact velocity of say in the neighborhood of about 800 fps will certainly penetrate a WT deer.
So what I am saying I guess is that what is needed is a shooting system and a main component of the system being a dependable range finder no different from the shooting systems being put to effective use in warfare today just on a smaller scale.

[Squeeze]

now you have me curious just how far I can shoot. Im using the Knight mountaineer to .32 conversion (its been posted on several forums) with a 1-36 twist (it was built for roundball, but does well with a conical so far) I havent shot it past 100 yet, but It surprised me there already. Ive tried it with Maxis, 25 grn of Blackhorn 209 powder, and a lubed overpowder wad and its very accurate , nice round holes. Next time to the range Im going to see what it takes to tighten up at 100, then try 150 to 200. See at what range it starts to tumble maybe. the gun never ceases to surprise me with its abilities. but its a conundrum unto itself, lol (follows no rules) the .36 build I have in mind is posted on pg 2 here under .32 build It would take #11 caps, so no BH, but some real black can do wonders. Can always try a duplex, but im not sold completely on BH yet

[Bullshop]

What twist are you planning for the 36? The 1/36 twist of your 32 really wont allow a boolit length that would be capable of very long range.
For the 36 you might consider what works good in a similar caliber CF rifle, something like a 35 Whelen. With 1/14" to 1/16" twist the 35 Whelen will handle about a 300gn boolit. With the right twist and boolit you might be very surprised at just how far you can shoot accurately with your 36.

[Squeeze]

exactly what I had in mind, built more specific to long ranges and bullets. possibly eventually for a varmint gun. These small call muzzleloaders have kept me at the range and smiling through all the ammo drought. and at about 1/4 price or less per shot of the smokeless or .50 cals (they are all prob $1-2 or more avg per trigger pull) I dont even lift my CF out of the safes anymore, I pretty much have a muzzleloader to cover any need I might have. something about them keeps me entertained.

[johnson1942]

i forgot to mention that 25 years ago on the edge of a oak forest next to the canadian line i made a 175 yard shot on a white tail doe. i was resting my .45 1-60 twist round ball gun i had built on a fench post and i elevated to 6 inches above where i wanted to hit. i was useing 100 grains of pyrodex behind a .445 round ball. it hit in a straight line 6 inches below where i aimed. she went to her knees then got up and limped off. it was hard trailing her and i got a .50 roundball. i could hit them where i wanted but trailing them to get them wasnt what i wanted. 7 or 8 years ago i did the same thing here in ne. and 125 yards. she went down hard but then got up and it also was long and hard trailing her. i thought at a closer range i wouldnt have this problem and i really liked the gun so i used it again.both shots were in the forward chest cavity as they should be but lacked what a .50 has. the point is you can make long shots with a roundball but they lack omph in the smaller cals. still love that gun and shoot it for fun alot. if you read about lewis and clark, some of the members of their crew were takeing antelope out to 300 yards with their .58 cal rifles. also the first shot fired at the battle of new orleans was at 215 yards and it was a head shot at a enemy officer. a rancher just across the border from me went to africa about 15 years ago with a pacific rifle underhammer around a .80 cal. and was useing 150 grains of powder behind the bullet(roundball). he said they shot loads of ducks on a pond at over 200 yards with it. yes i thought the same thing, a lot of wasted meat and you couldnt do that here in the states. the point is roundballs can shoot and much better and longer distances than we usually shoot them at. i have since built and in the process now of building another paperpatch rifle. i really like to see what all types of muzzleloaders can do and it really is alot. by the way the weather is getting a little better and i have a couple of muzzleloaders to sight in, cant wait. have fun

[DIRT Farmer]

I and a few others here shoot Gibbs rifles, refered to as small bore .451s These rifles will shoot to 1 MOA or better. Considering the mid range on these rifles +/- 40 feet at 500 yards with subsonic loads and a 500+ grain paper patch load hitting a target is simply a matter of having the exact range and reading the wind and miriage. Hitting a deer size target at 1000 yds is doable. Ethical hunting is another topic.
I have three long range bullet guns, The Gibbs, Volenteer 451 and a Poor Boy, Thompson Center with a Green Mountain 458 1/18. I have considered having another barrel set up in 32 1/14 twist to make a M/L 32-40 equivlant for 200 yd matches but so many projects so little time.

[Bullshop]

I have a nice lock and stock that I have been wanting to build a Gibbs type rifle from but as you say time/money have not been compliant.

[seekersoftheredmist]

WOOOhooo! see , Now we are talking! Gibbs, Varmint hunting.... THis... THIS is what i was looking for! keep her coming fellers! Prolly will stick to HOLY Black as my powder. the other stuff never has shown me the accuracy that Black has. What about a duplex load in your smoke poles? thoughts?

[DIRT Farmer]

The system that works for long range has been designed around black powder since the begining. That noted, Idaho Ron has been getting good results with pydroex.
For me when I go varmit hunting I use my 40 with round ball. The sneeky thing just adds to it. However coyotes are serious, I use a 22-250 for them.

[Bullshop]

Just remembered to go with that lock and stock I have a 40 cal barrel. It has a .412 groove 1/14" twist. Its about 34" long and almost 2" diameter.
I was saving it and a Kraig action to do a 405 Win but a 40 Gibbs seems interesting as well.

[DIRT Farmer]

From what I know, and I am far from an expert on LRML, the 40 makes a great mid range gun, IE to 500 yds.

[johnson1942]

bullshop,your barrel would shoot about a 450 grain .40 call bullet. it would be iffy with 6 thousands deep grooves and paperpatch. paperpatch shouldnt be more than 4 thousands deep. the way you could make that barrel a tack driver is cut off 3 inches and then on that 3 inch piece take out the lands for 1 and 1/2 inches. then have a grooved long range bullet mould made to .412 and 450 grains in weight. use no harder lead than 30 to 1 in casting this bullet. now push the bullet through the 3 inch barrel piece and preingrave the bullet. it will go down your barrel easily as it is preingraved for it. just use a fiber or poly wad between powder and bullet and you gun will be a long range tack driver good for good groups at 100 yards or a thousand yards. i have a .448 cal gun like this and it has killed 6 deer and is a tackdriver. i have shot deer at 150 yards in the very spot i was aiming at. it goes through them and plows dirt on the other side. they drop like a rock with the 400 grain i use. your barrel is a exciting barrel as the grooves are deeper than usual and the twist is better than a normal .40 cal. it is made perfectly for a long range gun and a preingraved bullet. the first shooter to preingrave was a man from calif. in the 1950/s. it seems to be a calif. invention and used by several shooters over the years in calif. only. their is a outfit on the internet makeing modern rifles into inlines and shooting a preingraved copper clad bullet at normal high power rifle speeds. they charge around 5000 dollars for their guns. you could cut your barrel down to 1 inch diam and mount it on a thompson reagade or even a thompson hawken. put a high post site on the front and a long range soule sight on the back and your in business. or you could build one from scratch. if i had you barrel i would be excited, your sitting on sleeper and one that would win matches with a good shooter behind it. let us know what you do.

[Bullshop]

Oh man now you got me all wobbly in the knees and butterfly's in my stomach.
I have a Wesson lock that might be perfect for this.

[Squeeze]

I almost bought gibbs last year. It was the 14lb weight that kept me from it because it would always just be a range gun and not hunt. I went with a pac-nor .45 on a savage ML instead. It can easily outshoot my abilities, and I probobly havent broken it in yet. just finished another rem/pac in .416 I just need some good optics on, should be even better at range. Im just starting into the smokeless world, and either can still use black (lol I know...whole different animal, and blasphemy to you traditionalists, but it just seems to be where my interest goes)

[Boz330]

I almost bought gibbs last year. It was the 14lb weight that kept me from it because it would always just be a range gun and not hunt. I went with a pac-nor .45 on a savage ML instead. It can easily outshoot my abilities, and I probobly havent broken it in yet. just finished another rem/pac in .416 I just need some good optics on, should be even better at range. Im just starting into the smokeless world, and either can still use black (lol I know...whole different animal, and blasphemy to you traditionalists, but it just seems to be where my interest goes)

I believe that Pedersoli is making a Gibbs hunting model now. Cost is about the same as the target model. Recoil might get your attention though. Basically you have a 45-90 to 45-100 in a ML.

Bob

[Squeeze]

Just ordered a barrel in .36 (true .360 bore) with a 1-14 twist and ~.005 rifling depth. I ordered some MMP sabots and some hornady XTP's in .311 in a few weights. Im also looking for a good .38 mold for PP or maybe just a GG slip fit. any suggestions?

[John Boy]

the question i have is how accurate are they to say... 300 yards AND what kind of energy would they have at that distance? enough to knock down steel or even better to ethically take deer sized game?

The question tells me the OP is inexperienced,lacks knowledge of firearms caliber capabilities and is not a sporting person to even think about a one shot kill on a deer at 300 with a 32 or 36 caliber bullet
Buy some reference books with loading data!

[johnson1942]

to shoot that gun paperpatch you will need to reduce a 1.05 long bullet to .352 diam. it wil shoot accurate as close and as far as you want. you will need to make a wad to go behind the bullet between the powder and the base of the bullet. the bullet should be no harder than 30 to one but 40 to one would be best. you can use double wrap dry wrapped with number nine onion skin paper all wood fiber paper but what will shoot with no fliers and load very easy is one wrap with 18 pound paper as that kind of wrap comes of at the muzzle perfectly every time if you use the double wrap slice along the seam through both layers of paper to the bullet almost to the base. then the double wrap will also come off at the muzzle every time. put both style of wraping the bullet on top of the wad as you put them on the powder. the wad under the bullet will keep the paper on the bullet when it goes down the bore. wipe good between rounds or it wont work. you gun should shoot very very good to any range following these rules. it should be more accurate than you can shoot. if you have any questions pm me and i will be glad to help. also dont try to turn it into a magnum. i wouldnt push the bullet more than 1500 ft. per second. 1200 to 1500 will give the consistant accracy you want. you will have to figure the powder charge to get that.