Under Gunned?

[rodwha]

Would you feel under gunned tracking a big (400 lb) hog with a 315 grn wide flat nosed lead bullet pushed to 800-850 fps, a little higher than a typical .45 Colt hunting load?

I see many hog hunters prefer a magnum with this type of bullet and weight. But a .45 Colt seemed pretty good at killing stuff, so one with a heavier bullet and a little extra oomph seems stellar to me...

[Hard_Cast]

Depends on if you can hit with it instinctively. I go out often with only a 44 special and a hot 240. But I know my gun. That being said, .30-06 puts 'em down a lot quicker! Careful out there....

[tacklebury]

No problem with the load, but the follow-up might be an issue. Big pigs can be tough and can kill ya given a chance to get at your thighs. If you take a muzzle loader, I'd probably at least carry a matching Kentucky style pistol or something for back-up. I have a .50 cal 10" barreled "Buckskinner" pistol that goes out with me for follow-ups and sometimes, I'll throw the smaller .45 Colonial pistol in my off hand pocket too.

[rodwha]

And there we have it…

I've not been in that situation. The one hog I shot didn't go anywhere. With a rifle and a rest I'm fairly confident (not a sharpshooter, but fair). With a pistol offhand I can put the majority in a nice group at 15 yds, but I've not had to do so with something coming out of the brush ready to chew off my leg!

I've done fairly well when things got crazy in other situations, but that doesn't mean panic can't set in, and moving around and firing is a whole nuther situation.

Though this bullet is a bit heavier than I intended I'd rather have too much penetration in this circumstance.

I'm hoping a .50 cal ball will be plenty and my bullet won't be tested.

[rodwha]

There's something about trying some bear meat over my bear skin rug that makes me want to try even were it huge. I wasn't too interested until I heard they tasted good...

[rodwha]

I'm glad I reduced it from .70" OAL to .675"! I figured I would have had a <300 grn bullet. Many 270 grn bullets with what appeared to be a similar enough design with moving of parts were .70" OA.

[IROCZ]

Rodwha, Are you talking about a .44 revolver or a rifle?

[rodwha]

Revolver. My Pietta '58 Remington.

I'm confident the ROA can handle that and more.

[725]

I dropped a big pig with one shot from a .54 ML pistol w/ a round ball. Of course, I had a modern revolver at hand in case one of those angels did you know what to the lock of my firearm.

[rodwha]

I'm curious as to what you noted with the wound and recovered (if so) ball. Expansion? Damage done? How big was your hog?

[Geraldo]

I live in Florida. We have to hunt hogs mostly at night around here, and if you wound one it runs straight for palmetto so thick it's like a tunnel. If you track with a pistol you'll be holding a light in your off hand and visibility will be 10' forward and about 2' to either side. Want to meet a 400 pounder at that range with a pistol? I've used my .44 mag under those conditions. The hog didn't seem too impressed by my handloads and neither was I. As for your ability to hit stationary targets, unless you're real lucky the hog will be moving. Try this test: tie a plastic just about the size of a hog head to some fishing line and then have somebody reel it in while you blast away. It will be illuminating.

Just so you have something reasonable to compare it to, we started hunting them with muzzleloaders. My buddy has had a few with rock solid hits from a .54/90gr FFG that left a blood trail Ray Charles could follow but they still got way into the palmettos. Now think about a hog six times that size and a your pistol's ballistics.

I know some guys who hunt with dogs and they recently ran up on a 300+ pound hog. One of the dogs took a tusk in the side. It went under the skin and out like a rug needle but didn't tear the skin, just two big punctures. Not something I'd like to think about in my leg.

Reality is that you'll rarely encounter one as big as you're talking about and most of the ones you do shoot will die peacefully. The ones that don't, well, that's when it gets exciting.

[GabbyM]

Would you feel under gunned tracking a big (400 lb) hog with a 315 grn wide flat nosed lead bullet pushed to 800-850 fps, a little higher than a typical .45 Colt hunting load?

I see many hog hunters prefer a magnum with this type of bullet and weight. But a .45 Colt seemed pretty good at killing stuff, so one with a heavier bullet and a little extra oomph seems stellar to me...

Just my opinion and it's worth the price.
You'd be way better off with a more standard bullet weight in the 45 Colt. 255 to 280 gain flat nose. You'll still be subsonic and with any half decent alloy won't have any issues with bullets breaking up. Going with ultra heavy weight less velocity does not give you more "oomph". Although I'm well aware that point is commonly argued. I'd argue that every cartridge ahs it's ideal weight. All that said. 315 grain boolit at 850 fps should work just fine. It would however have much more likely hood of bouncing (deflecting out) of a hogs skull than a faster 255 grain. There are many hogs shot now days with suppressed 44 mag rifles running sub sonic Lee 320 LFN boolits. Those rifles can go super sonic with that 320 bullet if you push hard IIRC. I'd pick a weight I could push at 1,100 to 1,150 fps and call it good.

[rodwha]

excess: I've yet to fire this Pietta. Still just looking at it…

The 285C is meant for my ROA, and would be most likely what I'd carry as a backup.


Geraldo: Having to track in that stuff sounds ludicrous! I'd want a little more breathing room! I wouldn't want to have to track a 100 lb hog in that, especially not one that's wounded!

Yea, I've only heard of those big porkers. The big ones more commonly run up to maybe 250 lbs with most being under 200 lbs. But they still have tusks!

I'm not too much into heads on the wall, though I am a sucker for European mounts, I'd have to mount a 400 lb hog head in my beer room!

I figured that if a 255 grn Kaido bullet traveled from nose to tail through an adult hog (average ~200 lbs I believe) a heavier one that's only slightly longer (.635" vs .675") ought to do better, especially if black bears may be the game, which is actually why I mentioned 400 lbs (big hog/average bear).

Maybe a Walker or Classic Ballistix cylinder ought to be higher on my list...

[rodwha]

This bullet turned out to be a little heavier than I intended, but figured it still had the powder capacity I was wanting, and maybe the increased weight would be good. I was wanting something more along the lines of a pure lead bullet with the weight shown using WW's.

I may just have to order another mold if I find this doesn't work out as well as I hoped. That or get the Classic Ballistix cylinder to increase my powder charge. I've been considering reaching out to people who have a chronograph/gel blocks and would use Swiss/Olde E/T7 to gauge it's potential.

I had asked about the threshold of bullet weight vs performance as there's a point in which there's too much weight. I'd like to see these burst from the barrel at 850 fps or more.

[Geraldo]

I think your ROA is the pistol to use. Ruger says in the manual that the charge is however much of whatever grade powder you can stuff under a bullet, and that's just how I'd run it.

[rodwha]

Most definitely!

I would like a Classic Ballistix cylinder though. Why stop at .45 Colt +P levels when I can get closer to Ruger Only -P loads? 700 ft/lbs sounds mighty nice! But I still wonder if it's necessary, if a Colt +P load isn't enough. If it can go nose to tail more doesn't do much of anything except come out the other end faster...

[Junior1942]

......I still wonder if it's necessary, if a Colt +P load isn't enough. If it can go nose to tail more doesn't do much of anything except come out the other end faster...

Exactly. And waste lots of energy on air.

[BrassMagnet]

One of my buddies used to tell the tale of the boar he went after with 12 gauge slugs.
It charged him and he shot it in the head. It knocked it a$$ over teakettle.
Then it got up and charged again.
When he fired his last slug he climbed a tree.
It went after the tree and tried to shake him out.
Thankfully, he had a sling on his shotgun and it went up the tree with him.
He had trouble reloading while hanging on to the shaking tree for dear life, but finally managed.
Shotgun slugs in the back from above did kill that hog.

So what is the point of this story? I wonder if those heavy but slow slugs would do fine in the shoulder but not so good in the head.

[rodwha]

I've heard a similar story where a father and son were out and saw a hog. The dad had a .44 Mag and the son had a .45 ACP. It took all of their ammo to bring it down right before them. They knew they hit it several times as it would do a nose dive. Dad's last shot had spun it sideways where the son was able to get a good shot to put it down.

And I've also heard how the angle of the skull, like tank armor, makes the bullets deflect. I'm not sure if speed has anything to do with it, though I can't say I've heard anything about using rifles and having that problem.

[tacklebury]

Put a 300 gr. Hardcast on his head from a .45 Colt and it'll drop. Problem is people using fast expanding factory hollow points on them. Even 12 ga. foster slugs are too soft and come apart easily on the head of a big pig. Better off to use a hard cast lead with a good meplat or a RNFP style like Hornady's FP or even a solid like DGS might be sure to make it through.