200gr 45ACP WFN have we ever done this?

[harley45]

have we ever done one of these or does one of the smaller makers do one? My thought is since I've had such success with my 10mm 200 grainers at a little over 1000fps on hogs this would also work well in one of my 1911s. My concern is the sectional density an penetration issues. Any thoughts?

[Bigslug]

I think a 200 grain WFN would be an AWESOME .45ACP varmint bullet. For piggies, I'd want more mass with that diameter.

[harley45]

My experience with the 200gr 10mm is impressive at "only" 1050 FPS so I'm thinking a 45 of the same weight and close in velocity may be the ticket.

IMG_0127 by White Tiger Photographic, on Flickr

[Jupiter7]

Hey Harley,

I was thinking the same thing this morning. I'm following along after the 10mm discussion. If this goes somewhere, I'm in. I really like oreo's 40/10 190/200 mold, it's an excellent design and has proven accurate from mild to wild in the .40 out of a STI eagle 5.0. I'm gonna search the
accurate molds catalogue to see if Tom has something or find some inspiration.

[Outpost75]

Accurate 45-240A is a design intended for the S&W 625 revolver, but it feeds in M1911 pistols that will feed short-nosed wadcutters like the H&G130.

Shortened to 200 grains I think it would be too short to feed.

This particular bullet does very well at short ranges, but its dispersion becomes nonlinear at ranges beyond about 40 yards and 50-yard grouping is not as good as the similar Saeco #954, which has a smaller .30" meplat. While the Saeco #954 is a very satisfactory 100 yard gong ringer with a handgun, the 45-240A didn't do well at range, even when quenched and loaded up to 1200 fps from my Ruger Blackhawk, or shot in a Marlin rifle.

I gave the mold to my hog hunting buddy in SC and he is delighted with it as he shoots only hogs and IDPA and doesn't need a 50-yard load.

Attachment 99444

[harley45]

Outpost75 any specifics on his hog load with this weight? I had considered a 230gr load but was thinking the extra velocity I can get with a 200 would be beneficial?

[yondering]

have we ever done one of these or does one of the smaller makers do one? My thought is since I've had such success with my 10mm 200 grainers at a little over 1000fps on hogs this would also work well in one of my 1911s. My concern is the sectional density an penetration issues. Any thoughts?

Lee's 200-RF 45 Colt bullet is pretty close, for a production mold. I've used that one in 1911's and Glocks, although the nose is a little big for most 1911's.

[Bigslug]

Outpost75 any specifics on his hog load with this weight? I had considered a 230gr load but was thinking the extra velocity I can get with a 200 would be beneficial?

At velocities that are even close, you'll get more penetration with heavier slugs, no question. The modern wound ballistics bullet-testing protocol in use by the FBI grew out of a penetration failure of light, fast, and wide (in that case, rapidly expanding). The 200 grain .40 is going to have a substantially higher SD than the same weight spread out to .45 - check the numbers: .179 for a Hornady .40 XTP, vs. .140 for the same weight in .45. You need to go to a 250 grain .45 to get roughly the same SD - .175.

The Accurate 45-230F was my compromise between a WFN and hardball-like feeding reliability - I think for any kind of heavily-constructed critter, trading weight for speed is not going to do you any favors.

[Blammer]

Yep this has been done and there are some avialable for sale.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...roducts_id=251

here is another

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...roducts_id=163

[detox]

Will the RCBS 230gr Cowboy bullet work. Third bullet from left

[harley45]

I have that RCBS mold but after the luck I had with 10mm 200gr slugs on hogs I thought a 200gr 45 at 1000fps would be good to, are you guys saying the 230 may be better?

[Jupiter7]

Will the RCBS 230gr Cowboy bullet work. Third bullet from left

The mihec version is much nicer. I have one from the original GB, it is being rerun right now. Mine drops 235grs and it's a thumper at or above standard ball velocity. The idea of 200gr WFN would be velocity over weight. The mihec 45-225 rcbs is my favorite mold at the time being for 45auto.

Current buy:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ramer-HP-Rerun

Previous buy w/drawing
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...94#post1645294

[harley45]

That is the same mold I bought the MP one. the 200gr is just a thought

[yondering]

I have that RCBS mold but after the luck I had with 10mm 200gr slugs on hogs I thought a 200gr 45 at 1000fps would be good to, are you guys saying the 230 may be better?

I have a theory (which I have not proven, yet) that in a WFN style, a "sectional density" number based on meplat diameter, rather than bullet diameter, is a more accurate predictor of performance. The idea being that a .40 200gr WFN and a .45 200gr WFN would penetrate about the same, if they both have the same size meplat.
Just a theory though...

[Outpost75]

Outpost75 any specifics on his hog load with this weight? I had considered a 230gr load but was thinking the extra velocity I can get with a 200 would be beneficial?

9 grains of Blue Dot in an Ed Brown Custom Combat.

[Bigslug]

I have that RCBS mold but after the luck I had with 10mm 200gr slugs on hogs I thought a 200gr 45 at 1000fps would be good to, are you guys saying the 230 may be better?

For your chosen application, yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. A wider nose of lighter weight is a great way to dump your available energy in a relatively short penetration depth. What you're suggesting would be as effective on Wile E. Coyote as an Acme anvil, and would be one of the Four Horsemen of the Jackrabbit Apocalypse, but on large, thickly built critters, I would have concerns about having the licks to get to the Tootsie Roll Center of the Tootsiepop.

[harley45]

Bigslug, that is an awesome description!

[Bigslug]

Sectional density is much more your friend than velocity alone, which is why arrows work so well at poking deep at sub-300fps velocities. I was able to shoot FBI gelatin with the Lyman 200 grain .357 round nose at about 600fps and had it go completely through 18" of the stuff.

I really dig my Accurate 45-230F as a compromise between reliable feeding and wide nose (.30"), but you might also want to check out the group buy we have going for the MP 454423 - which is an updated version of Elmer Keith's 452423 designed for the ACP and Auto Rim. The original had about a .34" meplat and a 239 grain weight. Either should do your porkers in just fine.

[harley45]

I have an original 452423 and that at about 850fps is an option to. I like the idea of the one gun for all around use and the 10mm works good except for ammo availability. If I can get a good 45 load I'd be set.

[Bigslug]

Yeah. . .that whole "all around use" thing is kind of a mutha. . .

I've always maintained that the full power 10mm is the perfect round for a cop covering both rural and suburban areas. It will never be as good on grizzly bears as a .44 Magnum due to the lower power, and I would rather face drug dealers with a .45ACP because of the slightly lower recoil, but as one gun to adequately cover BOTH, it's hard to top. For sectional density, speed, and trajectory it beats anything in the 1911's performance envelope in spades. I've always kinda liked the fact that my Glock 20's 25 yard and 100 yard sight holds are virtually identical. . .

As to "all around" with the .45/1911, that's basically where I was going with my 45-230F concept, and what I hope to continue studying when the new MP mold arrives. I am hoping that these are as close to "multitasker" as can be had with what was originally designed to be a 50 yard and less defensive arm. Hardball penetrates just fine, but is a little gentle when it comes to generating wound channels. .45 hollowpoints can blow out to as wide as an inch, which is OK for adequate penetration on homo sapiens given the roughly 400 foot-pounds the .45ACP places at our disposal, but on larger animals with a "horizontal" anatomy, you may need to punch into them deeper than the one foot the FBI calls for. A medium to large meplat on a heavy-for-caliber pill would seem to be the answer.