Keith molds

[kooz]

I am new to casting, and in the process of assembling the tools. I need Keith style molds for .44 and .45, I was thinking about ordering the RCBS K-250 SWC and the 45-255 SWC two cavity molds from Midway , anyone use these and if so what do you think of them? also it looks to me like the .45 mold is only available in .454 dia, does this sound right? can the bullets be sized down to .452 with a LEE sizer? thanks

[Three44s]

I don't know beans about .45 casting but have the RCBS 250K.

A grand bullet.

One problem is that with such square corners ..... it's a pretty "technical" mold ...... Ie. you will earn your stripes.

Rather than lose all your religion at once also buy the six cavity Lee for Tumble lube. Use these for plinkers and "teachers". You could save some money by buying the two cavity and they are easier to manuever for a newbie but later on you will miss the output of the six holer.

But most of all: Welcome to the forum and to casting ...... may your stay in both endeavors bring you much good!

Three 44s

[NuJudge]

I get good results with the 429421, but I get better results with the Thompson bullet: 429244. They are both about the same weight. The Thompson bullet is more expensive because it takes a gas check.

The RCBS .44 bullet is very similar to the 429421, but I have never cast any of them. I have the mold, just never gotten going with it.

I have no experience with the .45 Kieth bullet.

CDD

[BCB]

I use the 44-250-K in a Ruger Super Redhawk. This boolit weighs in at 262 grains when cast from wheel weights. It is sure a nice lookin’ boolit when it is cast in a good hot mold. Regardless, I can’t get accuracy with it in the SRH at velocities greater than 1050 fps. Most of my accuracy loads are just a tad under the grand mark in fps. I have tried hot-roddin' it, but accuracy just ain’t there. My accuracy standards are an inch—center to center—at 50 yards with a good bench rest and the Burris set on 7x.

At the slower velocities, accuracy then begins to fail at 100 yards, yet this slug is a good pinker in the SRH and is more than accurate enough to 50 yards for whatever I care to do with it.

Winchester 230 and Green Dot have been the best powders so far—Nope, Unique didn’t work! (Nor does it work for much of anything I have tired it with for that matter of fact—just had to say that!!!) Good-luck…BCB

[Lloyd Smale]

both are excellent bullets.

[EDK]

Don't mess with anything less than a 4 cavity mould. Price them at midwayusa or Grafs or Midsouth or Natchez or...

The LEE 6 banger is good value for the money--my opinion went up with a group buy mould here..and a little time spent lapping!

A 4 cavity LYMAN is also a good choice. I like iron better than aluminum, but it is about twice the price of a LEE and handles run about $30.

Watch ebay. They still sell moulds and sometimes you can get a deal. The LYMAN 429421 is the Keith boolit and it's not as popular as the gas check 429244. I never "won an auction" on 429244 in 2 years, but finally go a super clean one off this forum. (Thanks Larry) The 45 moulds are readily available too.

You might want to experiment before deciding on sizing diameter. A .454 is sometimes better in 45 Colt chambered guns, with their notorious problems with cylinder throat dimensions. For 44, I favor .430 and am going to order a .432. The LEE push thru will get you going and then you can find a used Lyman or RCBS lubricator sizer...or possibly go to a Magma/Star.

You can start low end and may stay with it. BUT if you're a high volume pistol shooter and cast your own, you'll end up with 4 or 6 cavity moulds, a 20 pound+ melting pot and a Star lubri-sizer to complement your 550 Dillon or other progressive machine.

Good luck and welcome to the brotherhood of the silver stream

EDK aka Blue Roan other places

[Ghugly]

I don't know beans about .45 casting but have the RCBS 250K.

A grand bullet.

One problem is that with such square corners ..... it's a pretty "technical" mold ...... Ie. you will earn your stripes.

Rather than lose all your religion at once also buy the six cavity Lee for Tumble lube. Use these for plinkers and "teachers". You could save some money by buying the two cavity and they are easier to manuever for a newbie but later on you will miss the output of the six holer.

But most of all: Welcome to the forum and to casting ...... may your stay in both endeavors bring you much good!

Three 44s

Welcome.
A big ditto on Three 44s suggestion that you get the Lee tumble lube mould. I use the TL430-240-SWC mould for plinking and the Keith's for more serious stuff (and showing off). The tumble lube's arn't very impressive to look at but they drop like rain and shoot really well.

[MT Gianni]

I have the 429421 and the 429244 I would prefer either to any Lee I have shot including the 6 cavitys ability to increase your out put. I think Lee's groves are too shallow and their meplated too small for swc, The rf works OK. I shoot the 429421 in handguns [Redhawk & Charter 44 SPL] and the 244 in a rifle for higher speeds 421 for medium in the rifle. [Rossi Puma 92].
The 45 is covered by a 454424. I have shot others, many like the Lee 255RF but in my blackhawk the 424 wins hands down. RCBS makes great molds. They have good designs.
Gianni

[kooz]

MT Gianni, are these Lyman molds you are using ?

[MT Gianni]

Yep. The 454424 is now the 452424 but other than that it is the same. Gianni

[MakeMineA10mm]

kooz,
Welcome to the forum. I can't add much to what these guys said about 44 bullets, in general. Most of my shooting so far as been with a 210gr RNFP custom Lee mould from a Group Buy at the SASS Wire, and from the Lyman #429244 (Thompson Gas-Check) mould in solid-nose and hollow-point form. So, I too am in the market for a 44 Keith bullet mould.

What I'm leaning towards is the RCBS 44-250-KT (part #82044). If you go to another thread here at Cast Boolits ( http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=22466 ) and scroll down to about post #15 and on to the second page, you'll see some excellent photos of well-cast 44 Keith-style bullets by member GLL here. He and I had a discussion, and he's quite a resource, in my opinion, because he has many of the Keith-style moulds by many different manufacturers.

The reason I like the particular bullet I mentioned, rather than the others, is because the nose is shorter, and the OAL of the bullet is shorter, yet it still gives full weight and meets the general Keith design (broad meplat, SWC nose, distinct shoulder, 3 equal driving bands, square-bottom big-enough lube groove). All of these factors mean you still get a Keith-style bullet without the problems of whether it will fit/feed in a short-cylinder gun or lever-action (at least in theory). I'm betting the 82044 mould will still have too long of a nose to feed in a lever action when seated to the crimp groove, but I'm wondering if it will work with an "impressed crimp" from a Lee factory crimp die somewhere on the front driving band? (And, will THAT, in turn, hurt it's accuracy??? I don't know...)


As far as a 45 Keith boolit, I know this from reading, NOT doing, so take it for what it's worth: The original Lyman mould that is labelled a "Keith" bullet for the 45 Colt does NOT match-up to Keith's design specs in his 38 and 44 bullets. Why? Because Lyman had to shorten the driving bands and nose to allow it to fit in the OAL of loaded rounds for 45 Colt for all of the guns that chambered that cartridge (including S&Ws). Because of this, the bullet's length to diameter ratio is also "stubbier" than Keith's designs in the 44 and 38.

One must remember that Keith designed his 38 and 44 bullets for use in the SPECIAL cases of each caliber. From his (and others') loadings, the factories came up with the Magnums in each of those calibers LATER (after the bullets were designed). This is why 38-caliber Keith bullets don't work in many 357s when seated to the crimp groove - the brass is so long and the out-of-case nose length of the bullet is so long, that the bullets stick out the front of the cylinder.

A few years ago, RCBS came out with a mould to correct this, at the behest of, I believe, Dave Scovill (of Handloader Magazine). He re-drew the bullet in 45 caliber to stick to the design principles, and it wound up being a 270gr (+) design. RCBS catalogs it as the 45-270-SAA, because only SAAs and revolvers with similarly long cylinders (Rugers) can handle it. Of course, this bullet CAN be loaded in any 45 Colt (including the short-cylinder ones) by doing the same thing folks have to do with the 38 Keith bullet - seat it down and crimp over the front edge of the top driving band.