Cap and Ball questions

[Mechanicalmayham]

So I just bought my first C&B pistol, a Uberti Cimmeron 1860's Navy in 44cal. Its nice though a few small detractors (small trigger area and sharp screws below cylinder.)
So after thoroughly reading the instruction multiple times I have questions. The instructions say to use a "powder of proper granulation." but it gives no reference to what that is. I have some tins of fffg from Goex and a half tin of ffffg. Are these to fine for this firearm?
Secondly, do I need a patch or just ball only?
It makes reference to conical ball for loading but I am guessing that's something like a Minnie Ball. Any experiences with all this?
And lastly, I would like to get a single or double cavity mold (period style) to accompany this pistol. I am thinking Bag Mold but I am open to suggestions here.
Thanks in advance.

[Bardo]

Your 3f Goex is ideal. Don't use the 4f. No patch you need a oversized ball - when you seat it you will shave a little ring of lead off. I use .457 on all my 44 cal. but a .454 will probably do great. Being an Uberti .451 might be to small. You have a couple of options when loading you can do powder - ball then lube over ball (a lot of options for lube) or powder - felt wad - then ball. And I would bet that Remington #10 caps will work great- they work the best for me. As for the molds most my round ball molds are Lyman double cavity - these are not correct for the time period.

Bardo

[Outpost75]

Either 3Fg or 2Fg will work. Use a round ball of pure lead or 1:40 tin-lead, no harder. Powder charge should fill the chambers so that you feel compression as the rammer bottoms at the end of its stroke. About 28 grains if you use a lubricated felt wad under the ball, or 30 grains with no wad. Ball needs to be large enough that you cut a slight ring of lead forcing it into the chambers in loading. A .454 ball is rigbt for most. Smear Crisco over the ball to lubricate and keep the fouling soft.

Read the chapter in Sixguns by Keith on management of the cap & ball sixgun.

[bubba.50]

don't know if they still do but, Dixie Gun Works used to sell reproduction moulds for the colt's pistols. they're usually double cavity & made of brass. also see them on evil-bay time to time.

[Mechanicalmayham]

thoughts on the use of 777 or other substitute for bp?
a fella was telling me that's all he uses anymore. I would like to stay period but bp is as rare as hens teeth anymore.

[Bardo]

I wouldn't use 777. But Pyrodex P you will use the same as black powder 3f. It wont ignite as easy as the real stuff. You can get the real stuff shipped to your door for less then pyrodex if you get 10lbs or more from - http://www.powderinc.com/

Bardo

[Omnivore]

The few antique, period style Colt's molds I've seen we're all steel with two cavities, one ball and one conical. They may or may not be the right diameter for your new revolver, so be sure you know your chamber diameter. The lead should come out a bit larger than the chambers. At least a few thousandths over for the ball and at least one or two over for the conical. .454 balls are about right for any of the repro pistols, but as stated a .457" will work too.

Powder, then lubed felt wad (never use a patch), then lead is probably the easiest way to load, short of a paper cartridge.

My Uberti also has the sharp stock screws. Pull them out, chuck them lightly in a lathe or a power drill and take some 400 grit to the outer edges. Reblue if you like. You'll find lots of sharp edges: the outer edge of the recoil shield, the outer corners of the "water table" on the frame under the cylinder, the stock cuts under the recoil shield, the hammer cut-out, etc. Some of them can cut you. I tend to take carbide 400 or 600 grit to them. Take off just enough to make them unlikely to cut you and you'll scarcely notice the removal of the bluing. I haven't bothered to re-blue anything and you wouldn't notice if I handed you the gun.

It usually helps to take a file to the rear sight notch in the hammer too, so you can see the front sight better, but take it out and shoot it a few times first to get a good feel for the point of impact. If any windage correction needs done you can do that at the same time you deepen the notch. If the hammer's too hard for a file, you can nick the steel a little in the notch with a Dremel cut-off wheel, to get through any case hardening. My Uberti didn't need the latter though.

[Gunor]

Bardo,
Why? - "I wouldn't use 777"
Just wondering

Geoff in Oregon

[Bardo]

I have tried 777 in ffg and fffg and just haven't had great results. It is picky about being compressed. It is 15% hotter then BP or pyrodex. When it fisrt came out about 10 years ago I put 150gr in my Thompson Encore and found out that was the wrong thing to do. Had to send it into Thompson because it locked up. They sent it back saying the gun was fine, but that they had not yet tested the 777. So it is NOT a direct replacement like pyrodex. I have more ignition problems with it also. I know a lot of people use it but its my least favorite. I prefer real black powder but have used probably more pyrodex. But I am now stocked up on black powder. Just my opinion for what it is worth.

Bardo

Bardo,
Why? - "I wouldn't use 777"
Just wondering

Geoff in Oregon

[Petrol & Powder]

As others have said, FFFg is the right powder. Do NOT use the FFFFg powder. I strongly prefer real black powder over pyrodex or the other substitutes. Round balls generally shoot better than conical in most cap & ball revolvers. The conical projectile gives you a little more weight for the caliber but often at the cost of accuracy. YMMV.
Also as stated before, no patch is used; when a slightly oversized round ball is seated you will shave off a little lead around the circumference.
You have a couple of choices for lube: 1. a lubed felt wad under the ball or 2. lube over the ball after you seat it. The lube over the ball doesn't take up space BUT the wad under the ball is far cleaner when actually shooting. I've used both methods and prefer wads under the ball, your call.
Clean the revolver well when you're done shooting. Hot water down the barrel is still a good method with black powder. Windex can be your friend as well. Just be certain to use a good oil, and lots of it, after the water is removed.
And most of all, enjoy your revolver ! C&B guns are FUN!!

[Alan]

Esp if you know someone else that likes BP, have a case drop-shipped to your door. Check your local ordnances first, but that is by far the cheapest. I can get BP + hazmat fee for half of what the subs are bringing locally, when you can find them. 3F works, and will shoot pretty well, esp with lower powder amounts. But I have been beating the drum for good 'ol 2F. All of my guns but one like it a LOT more than 3f, and you don't have to fool with fillers or reduced loads.

Recipe:
Tight (.454 or .457) round ball
Greased felt wad. Several recipies on forum, but Red Wing or Track of the Wolf Mink Oil will work beautifully.
All of the 2F the cylinder will hold and let the ball center itself.

Results:
Lower pressure than 3F
Softer fouling == easier to clean, and one shot wipes the fouling of the previous

You will have to experiment for the best charge for your gun, but the main thing is to pour the powder, then seat the wad on top of it gently. The wad should NOT touch the ball when it is resting on the chamber mouth. It will interfere with the ball centering itself in the chamber mouth, and produce a flyer.

With Remmys, you will occasionally (2-3 cylinders) have to pull the cylinder and wipe off the pin with a spit patch and re-lube. Colts you can just shoot and shoot and shoot. But your gun will be shooting as well at the end of the day as when you started. (assuming a reasonably smooth barrel anyway)

[bubba15301]

thoughts on the use of 777 or other substitute for bp?
a fella was telling me that's all he uses anymore. I would like to stay period but bp is as rare as hens teeth anymore.

where are you in pa ? if you are near washington pa, ace sporting goods sells blackpowder

[Captain*Kirk]

777 loads need to be reduced by 15% to maintain the same pressures. Also, T7 is a sugar-based substitute. 3F is the proper powder for your revolver with Pyrodex P being an equal-by-volume equivalent for your Cimarron. Pyrodex is slightly more corrosive but if you clean after shooting it shouldn't matter. Balls will most likely be either .454 or .457 in some cases; properly sized ball will offer some resistance on seating and shave a lead ring. You can use either lubed wad over powder or boolit lube over ball...but not recommended to use both.....Lee makes an excellent conical 200gr double mould if conicals are in your future. Caps; Remington #10's are what I recommend and use.