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Thread: Cast bullets and sabot

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy Huntsman's Avatar
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    Well, if it's a petal issue then I'll try my Nosler black sabots instead of my MMP ones....

  2. #22
    Boolit Master SPRINGFIELDM141972's Avatar
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    Huntsman -

    I am not sure of your experience with black powder so if this is to elementary then I apologize.

    Concerning your powder charge... I would first start with a minimum charge of 60 grains and work your way up through 80 to 90 grains. I think with the advent of Pyrodex pellets and the in-line rifles that many black powder hunters are mislead by thinking that you have to have 90+ grains to hunt whitetail deer. It is just not so. I have several black powder rifles (from .32 through .69 cal) and everyone of them are extremely effective on deer with less than 100 grains of powder. I would recommend that you find a large white sheet and lay on the ground in front of you when you are increasing your charge. When you begin to find unburnt powder on the sheet, then you are at the maximum charge for that rifle with that powder and that bullet. You will probably also find that the most accurate load is less than the maximum charge that the rifle with burn.

    Also, (again if elementary, sorry) the most important factor in black powder accuracy is consistency in loading. The greatest advantage of the cartridge was the fact that a weapon could be loaded in any reasonable fashion and that powder charge/bullet seating would be "consistent". You must load your black powder rifle exactly the same every time you load it. If you very the amount that you compress the load prior to seating the boolit then you will change the point of impact.If you very the amount that you compress the load when seating the boolit then you will change the point of impact. This is the art and the science of black powder shooting. Once you master this, then its a matter of finding the boolit that the weapon likes to shoot.

    Kind Regards
    Everett

  3. #23
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPRINGFIELDM141972 View Post
    Huntsman -

    I am not sure of your experience with black powder so if this is to elementary then I apologize.

    Concerning your powder charge... I would first start with a minimum charge of 60 grains and work your way up through 80 to 90 grains. I think with the advent of Pyrodex pellets and the in-line rifles that many black powder hunters are mislead by thinking that you have to have 90+ grains to hunt whitetail deer. It is just not so. I have several black powder rifles (from .32 through .69 cal) and everyone of them are extremely effective on deer with less than 100 grains of powder. I would recommend that you find a large white sheet and lay on the ground in front of you when you are increasing your charge. When you begin to find unburnt powder on the sheet, then you are at the maximum charge for that rifle with that powder and that bullet. You will probably also find that the most accurate load is less than the maximum charge that the rifle with burn.

    Also, (again if elementary, sorry) the most important factor in black powder accuracy is consistency in loading. The greatest advantage of the cartridge was the fact that a weapon could be loaded in any reasonable fashion and that powder charge/bullet seating would be "consistent". You must load your black powder rifle exactly the same every time you load it. If you very the amount that you compress the load prior to seating the boolit then you will change the point of impact.If you very the amount that you compress the load when seating the boolit then you will change the point of impact. This is the art and the science of black powder shooting. Once you master this, then its a matter of finding the boolit that the weapon likes to shoot.

    Kind Regards
    Everett
    yes sir i agree with everything you mentioned. hopefully get another chance to shoot it on saturday if the weather cooperates. going to eliminate a scope problem and start at 60 grains and see if that helps.

    BRU

  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy Huntsman's Avatar
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    Thanks alot for your comment Everret, I will definitely use your tips my next trip out to the range, hopefully this weekend. I suppose I never really gave my loads much of a chance and the frustration got the better of me. I'll post my results when completed,
    Thanks again,
    Jamie

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy skullmount's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman View Post
    Well after some range testing I felt a little dissapointed. I used both T7 & Pyrodex RS in 100gr volume and 90gr volume charges....the groupings were horrendous!!!
    Awful, awful, awful. Is the charge too big or too small? I'm having 2nd thoughts on these.....
    I think its too big!
    Drop back to 65 or 70 grains. Do some testing useing 10 65 grain loads, then 10 70 grain loads and so on.

    I have hunted with 40, 45(sabot) and 50 caliber, the largest hunting load was 75 or 80 grains......

    Less is More, when you want to hit the bull and not just the target.

  6. #26
    Boolit Buddy
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    Like the other guys said.....slowww downnn start with less powder,,,, work your way up * looking for the sweet spot*

    you never mentioned the primers have you tryed others ? sometimes the accuracy comes from within the primers!! there was some speculation that some off the hotter primers may dislodge the bullet/sabot from the powder casuing a airspace- jump causing inaccuracies

    you never said if you picked up any of the sabots* the sabots should all be pretty close to the same area* ... and inspected them for torn petals or were the petals folded back/open or were there rifle engravings on them if so were the stripped or torn in any way shape or form ,if the cup portion was burn/undercut from gas escaping

    you never lubed the bullets... before you incerted them in to the sabot,, did ya?* they are ment to shoot dry/unlubed*

    how did they load.....nice and smooth,,,,,,,,or fall down the barrel....... or so tight you had to stand on the ramrod to load them

    give us some more detail and take your time i'm sure in no time the fellows will have you shooting groups you'll be happy with

  7. #27
    Boolit Master Murphy's Avatar
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    Howdy fellow BP shooters!

    While I've been on CB for 2 years now, I don't recall making any contributions to this section. I have however been a BP hunter for 20 years now.

    I've been down the many roads of various rifles/boolits/powders/ignition systems.

    I own both a sidehammer T/C White Mountain (which would be one of the last guns I'd ever part with) and a T/C Omega. I know to some, that the inlines don't count as real BP guns...and I'm fine with that.

    What my personal experience has been. My White Mountain loves MMP sabots and .45/250 Gr. XTP bullets and cast #429421's.

    The Omega despise's cast #429421's in ANY sabot. I was almost ready to give up on it and as a last resort..'gulp' I bought factory made projectiles designed just for my T/C inline. BINGO!

    That being said, I have since wondered if anyone else has considered putting together a group buy for a mold that drops boolits designed as a carbon copy of what T/C sells?

    Perhaps we should kick around this idea?

    Thanks,

    Murphy
    If I should depart this life while defending those who cannot defend themselves, then I have died the most honorable of deaths. Marc R. Murphy '2006'.

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy Huntsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onlymenotu View Post
    Like the other guys said.....slowww downnn start with less powder,,,, work your way up * looking for the sweet spot*

    you never mentioned the primers have you tryed others ? sometimes the accuracy comes from within the primers!! there was some speculation that some off the hotter primers may dislodge the bullet/sabot from the powder casuing a airspace- jump causing inaccuracies
    Primers used were Winchester W209
    you never said if you picked up any of the sabots* the sabots should all be pretty close to the same area* ... and inspected them for torn petals or were the petals folded back/open or were there rifle engravings on them if so were the stripped or torn in any way shape or form ,if the cup portion was burn/undercut from gas escaping
    The sabots opened up nicely, like they should've, No broken petals
    you never lubed the bullets... before you incerted them in to the sabot,, did ya?* they are ment to shoot dry/unlubed*
    Nope, no lube
    how did they load.....nice and smooth,,,,,,,,or fall down the barrel....... or so tight you had to stand on the ramrod to load them
    Nice & smooth or normal as compared to SST's or XTP's I've loaded
    give us some more detail and take your time i'm sure in no time the fellows will have you shooting groups you'll be happy with
    I have way more confidence now after reading all the helpful tips everyone has offered, as a matter of fact, as soon as I log off I'm going out to the garage to cast some more!!
    Cheers All

  9. #29
    Boolit Buddy Huntsman's Avatar
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    Smile

    Well today I had a chance at the range, I started with 60gr/3 shot
    group @50yds.(no wind)..SWEET Damn near all holes touching. I then moved to 70grs with a 1" group at 50yds as well, with 80grs the group opened up to 1.15"- 2" group and right of bullseye.
    Now I tried at 100yds (wind started to pickup) the 70gr hit about 2.5" high of bull and 2" left, then it was too windy to carry on to achieve reasonable/proper groupings. So definately the 70 gr so far....??
    Here is what I chronied; All loads were with Triple 7 FFG, Lee 300gr .45 RF boolit,
    1) 60grs 1521 fps
    2) 70grs 1649 fps
    3) 80grs 1675 fps
    I'll be going back out next wknd to work my 100yd groups.
    Cheers,

  10. #30
    Boolit Buddy Underclocked's Avatar
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    You are gettin there, Huntsman. Now you just need to go full bore with the lead.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    For years I shot my TC Renegade with saboted pistol bullets and it was hard to find one that didn't perform well, at least well enough to drop a deer at 100 yds. Two years ago I picked up an H&R Huntsman, it just loves the Lee REAL boolit. Haven't fired my Renegade since.

    Thinking about it though for old times sake. She sure is a reliable weapon.
    Lucky Joe
    "There's always a way."

  12. #32
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman View Post
    Well today I had a chance at the range, I started with 60gr/3 shot
    group @50yds.(no wind)..SWEET Damn near all holes touching. I then moved to 70grs with a 1" group at 50yds as well, with 80grs the group opened up to 1.15"- 2" group and right of bullseye.
    Now I tried at 100yds (wind started to pickup) the 70gr hit about 2.5" high of bull and 2" left, then it was too windy to carry on to achieve reasonable/proper groupings. So definately the 70 gr so far....??
    Here is what I chronied; All loads were with Triple 7 FFG, Lee 300gr .45 RF boolit,
    1) 60grs 1521 fps
    2) 70grs 1649 fps
    3) 80grs 1675 fps
    I'll be going back out next wknd to work my 100yd groups.
    Cheers,
    well it sound's like your a little happier this time ( glad its starting to come together for you ) you'll have the energy you need to get the job done.... don't read to mutch in to the fps..... as it's not as importiant as the grouping...... you got hit the target,,,,,, to kill it,,,,,, being fast as h3ll don't get the job done,,, if you can't hit it.....at some point they're becomes a trade off

    good luck with the sabot quest

  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy Huntsman's Avatar
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    Thanks again Onlymenotu, I really appreciate the support. I'm heading out again this wknd, weather depending....it may start snowing again but that's CANADA for ya!!
    When you said full bore you mean like a Minie or REAL boolit right?
    Cheers,

  14. #34
    Boolit Buddy Huntsman's Avatar
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    Well things are definately getting better group wise. 1st I switched sabot size from short to long petals, loaded up 100grs loose T7, shot at a 50yd target, "BULLSEYE!!" on the 1st shot!!
    I must add to that it was -15 degrees celsius which equals= 5 degrees fahrenheit.
    So it was pretty chilly. Well I fired four more shots after that, 2 holes were touching at
    2 O'clock and 2 were touching at 4 O'clock. So that make a total of 1 bullseye, 2 touching @ 2 and 2 touching @ 4. I must say that I am pretty happy with this as it shows some consistency.
    I must also point out that the sabots I used were close to 3 years old(Nosler .451-.452). I found some that were good, ok and missing petals. So two things to consider are the -15 weather and the age of the sabots. I will try again once it gets alot warmer out.

  15. #35
    Boolit Buddy Underclocked's Avatar
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    Nope, like a conical such as those Bull Shop produces.

  16. #36
    Boolit Buddy Saint's Avatar
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    I tried shooting .49 roundballs in sabots out of my .54 rifle.. Definitely a different experience. Has anybody ever tried moulding their own plastic sabots.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check