Figured out why my Rossi 92 won't shoot...

[Deep Six]

One thing is for sure: it's not going back to Rossi. Like I said in a previous post, it already went back for a new barrel because the original was bent (shot 3 feet left at 100). It took them months to decide to just send me a new gun. The new gun has a [somewhat] straight barrel but now the bore diameter problem. The only thing I'd accomplish by sending it back would to be without a gun for several months. I am confident that whatever I get back from Rossi will either be as bad or worse than what I have now. At least the current gun has a good finish and smooth action.

What I need is a source for an aftermarket barrel without having a smith cut one from scratch.

[knifemaker]

Deep six I feel for you as I had a Marlin 94 in 44 mag caliber with the same problem. It was a pre safety marlin that the chamber end of the barrel was slugged at .431 and the muzzle end was .433 and it would not shoot worth a darn. I sent it back to the Marlin factory about a year before Rem. took over and paid to have a "ballard" type barrel installed. The original barrel was a micro-goove barrel.
When I got it back the darn thing was consistant in barrel groove dia. but was .432 from end to end. I had to get a custom .433 sizing die in order to get decent cast lead groups at 100 yards. I was lucky that the chamber took the loaded .433 sized bullets and no hard chambering.
If I had to do it over again, I would look at having a gunsmith that specializes in installing barrel liners. I think some of the guys on this forum can reccommend one as I have seen threads about a gunsmith that does such a good job of installing the liner that it is almost invisible from the muzzle end. From the research I have done, it appears that the liners are better made and more consistant in groove dia. then most factory barrels for lever action rifles.
But to be fair to Marlin. I have a Marlin 1895 LTD-V in 45-70 Cal. that will put 3 shots into a group of under 1 inch at 100 yards with 4 different loads I worked up. That rifle is factory original. Two loads being a Ranch dog 350 gr. cast and the other two being with the Hornady 350 gr. jacketed RNFP bullet they make. That rifle along with my Rossi 92 in 357 cal. will never be sold and will be passed on down to my sons or grandsons.

[Tackleberry41]

Not sure whats going on with gun companies anymore. Marlin got took over by wall street guys, their only consideration is money. And why you see so many complaining about their lever guns anymore. They have the math worked out where theres an acceptable return rate to what they are saving cutting corners. From what I have read and seen in racks I wouldn't purchase another marlin lever gun, dont know if they do the same thing with their bolt guns.

Rossi their just a cheap company. I cant imagine they have one factory making good stuff and another making the junk. The barrels I have seen its hard to find a good one vs just being a few bad apples. No need to make the bore and barrel concentric, or straight, or anything else. They must have the math worked out so the huge amount of returns dont bankrupt the company. Or maybe its just used to launder drug money.

[Dan Cash]

Deleted

[jh45gun]

Unfortunately it seems many gun companies today let clunkers come out of their factories. Can you say Ruger? Yet they make good ones too but they have let some terrible guns out of their factory. I have a Taurus 85 that is a gem I like it and it has never given me a problem. My Rossi I had to send back for a cartridge guide rail problem but they fixed it and sent it back and it has been fine. The barrel is good in it (45 Colt) and once I put a higher front sight on it it shoots where I aim it. Right now about the only gun companies I have not seen much for complaints is Henry, Rock Island and laugh Hi Point. All three of these companies products are well liked by those that own them and all three have flawless customer service.

[Alan]

Lapping will fix it, if done right. May take a couple of hours, but it will work. It cuts the grooves deeper too. Real lapping, not fire lapping.

[jonp]

I finally got around to slugging my 20" blue Rossi 92 in 44 mag. This gun has never produced a respectable group with any ammo I've ever tried in it (cast, jacketed, mag, special). The best it's ever done is with the Lee 240 RN over 7.5 Unique in special brass and it barely managed to keep up with my 4-5/8 flattop at 25 yards off a rest. I've never slugged it before but measured 0.430" at the muzzle with calipers.

Anyways, I found a good soft 45 cal bullet and lubed it and the barrel up. I started pounding it into the muzzle and all went normally for the initial 2" inches. Then the bullet literally dropped for the next 15" inches. Then I had to start pounding on it again. Then I had to start REALLY pounding on it. I was using an 3/8" oak dowel rod and each hammer blow was only moving it less than a 1/4" each time. I finally hammered it all the way out and measured it at 0.428".

So basically I have a barrel with 0.428" at the chamber, probably 0.433"+ for the majority of the barrel, and then back down to 0.430 or so at the muzzle. No wonder this thing doesn't shoot! That also explains why soft 44 special bullets work the best. I think I'm done with Rossi's. Should I try fire lapping or just give up and try to enjoy the 4" groups at 25 yards? It's good enough for fast pace steel banging anyways.

16 MOA is not fun and kinda useless. If you want to give up on it PM me and I might take it off your hands to fiddle with depending on the price.

[hpdrifter]

Some of this stuff is downright scary! Can they not make a barrel these days?

Sadly, most manufacturing control has been has been taken over by lawyers and beancounters.

Everything has been or is being "leaned". Steps taken out to increase efficiency, people of high experience have been displaced, and material is cheapened to the point of dangerous.

People that have no idea of the "Toyota" way implement it and leave it to plant personel to conduct it. It boils down to "just in time" mentality. Tis sad.

[jonp]

So basically I have a barrel with 0.428" at the chamber, probably 0.433"+ for the majority of the barrel, and then back down to 0.430 or so at the muzzle.

Are the Rossi barrels hammer forged? I'm wondering how this happens. It seems pretty strange to me.

[cbrick]

So basically I have a barrel with 0.428" at the chamber, probably 0.433"+ for the majority of the barrel, and then back down to 0.430 or so at the muzzle.

Are the Rossi barrels hammer forged? I'm wondering how this happens. It seems pretty strange to me.

Not being a machinist I've wondered that myself many times. It's something I've seen a few times though not in a Rossi. Will take a better machinist/smith than me to explain that. Yep, seems quite strange to me also.

Rick

[Deep Six]

Well guys I think I'm going to keep it for future project stock. The action and wood are actually very nice with good fit and finish. I even rubbed in several coats of BLO so the stock is nice looking and a lot more weather proof. Everybody complains about the Rossi actions but I've got no complaints about this one. All it needs is a halfway decent barrel. I'm thinking it may become the 38-40 I've wanted for a while now. Anyone got a recommendation for a smith that knows how rebarrel a Rossi done right?

I figure it's better to just spend a little money on it and get something really special that shoots straight than it is to tolerate 16 MOA or just cut my losses and move on.

[Bullshop Junior]

The gun was already replaced once due to a factory bent barrel on the first one. It's been over a year since I received this one so it's out of warranty. It took them 4 months to determine the barrel on the first one was bent, so I really have no desire to deal with Rossi CS again. I also have no faith that whatever I receive back would be an improvement over what I sent in. I think I'll give fire lapping a try.

If that doesnt work, and you deside to sell it, let me know.

[w30wcf]

Deep Six,
Sorry to hear about the issue with your Rossi. If you were to use Poly Shot Buffer as a flexible gas check that just might make the rifle shoot very well. Use slower burning powder (2400, 4227, etc) and then fill the case up to a distance of 1/2 the bullet length from the case mouth, then seat the bullet compressing the buffer.

Here's what it did in my '73 Winchester which has an average .4345" groove diameter with .428" diameter cast bullets .....



If you would like to try some, send me a PM and I'll send you a small amount to test.

w30wcf

[303carbine]

I finally got around to slugging my 20" blue Rossi 92 in 44 mag. This gun has never produced a respectable group with any ammo I've ever tried in it (cast, jacketed, mag, special). The best it's ever done is with the Lee 240 RN over 7.5 Unique in special brass and it barely managed to keep up with my 4-5/8 flattop at 25 yards off a rest. I've never slugged it before but measured 0.430" at the muzzle with calipers.

Anyways, I found a good soft 45 cal bullet and lubed it and the barrel up. I started pounding it into the muzzle and all went normally for the initial 2" inches. Then the bullet literally dropped for the next 15" inches. Then I had to start pounding on it again. Then I had to start REALLY pounding on it. I was using an 3/8" oak dowel rod and each hammer blow was only moving it less than a 1/4" each time. I finally hammered it all the way out and measured it at 0.428".

So basically I have a barrel with 0.428" at the chamber, probably 0.433"+ for the majority of the barrel, and then back down to 0.430 or so at the muzzle. No wonder this thing doesn't shoot! That also explains why soft 44 special bullets work the best. I think I'm done with Rossi's. Should I try fire lapping or just give up and try to enjoy the 4" groups at 25 yards? It's good enough for fast pace steel banging anyways.

The only advice I have is....... buy a Winchester.

[yeahbub]

I knew a fellow who was in a similar fix. His Rossi 44 Mag had a .428 bore and .434 groove, tighter at the breech than at the muzzle. Mediocre accuracy at best. It was fire lapped until consistent and would produce considerably better accuracy (minute of deer) if soft alloys were used which would allow obturation. Paper patching was an even better solution and eliminated leading. If you don't mind being limited to softer alloys, lapping may be the ticket. For some years, Rossi rifled their .44 Mag rifles to SAAMI maximum dimensions, according to Steve of Steve's Gunz, but they seem to have finally gotten the message. I'm told the new rifles coming in are now .429-.430. I haven't had a chance to examine a new one, so I can't say from personal experience.

Boring and rifling to .45 Colt is an option which the smith doing the job can adjust details to suit you.