What Kind of Lathe for Making Swage Dies

[smokeywolf]

First lathe I ever laid my hands on was a 17 x 57 Cincinnati Hydrashift. It seemed like a monster, until I had to rough some 4 inch dia. stainless down to 3 inch. Which was done on a circa 1937, 19 x 80 Lodge & Shipley. Overhead chain fall for changing chucks, steady rest or follow rest.

Like Randy says, horsepower, mass and rigidity are your best friends. Also, I can't imagine not being able to use 5C collets. Also, when single pointing a thread, even the smallest amount of chatter will destroy the cutting edge of your toolbit and show on the finish of your threads.

smokeywolf

[customcutter]

Cane,

I would check out this lathe. I thought it was bigger when I first saw it, but I think it might be a 10-12" machine 120/220v. Definitely, heavier than the other Logan (this one is a Logan) and with a QC gearbox. Doesn't say anything about any extra tooling or chucks.

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/tls/4311139177.html

Here is a link to a PDF with info on their lathes.

http://www.sterlingmachinery.com/db-...20brochure.pdf

A quick google search indicated a users group and Logan is still supporting with parts.

Been listed a while so price should be negotiable.

[257]

I had a 9 inch south bend, I got tired of the small headstock hole real fast I payed 1250.00 for it with just about any thing you could get for it sold it in 2004 for 1500.00 took about 3 days to sell it I bought a used 1 owner south bend heavy 10 with a 40 inches between centers flame hardened bed with a truck load of acceceresys it had a 2hp single ph you could wire 110 or 220 the cost was 4700.00 seemed quite high at the time but if I had to buy it again I would as far as heavy cut I can take .375 cut in 4140/d1/a1/a2/the secret to that is speed and feed rate I use coolant on some materal. the number one killer of tooling is heat or inproper angles on your cutters. another thing is a lathe with 1.375 headstock hole will take 5 c collets I use collets much more than chucks just my 2 cents worth

[W.R.Buchanan]

custom cutter: unfortunately the lathe on Craig's list is a turret lathe, and not really what the guy needs. The extra time he would need to learn how to set it up would be better spent learning on an Engine Lathe first.

Since the parts are available I'd go back to looking at that older Logan he passed up earlier. With a teardown and paint job I think that machine would be what he needs.

I realize the idea of tearing a machine apart and painting it and replacing any broken or worn parts might be considered a daunting task, however for some one who is mechanically inclined enough to do engine work on cars it would be well within their skill set.

It also is the absolute best way to learn how the machine works, which will go miles towards learning how to run the thing. One other guy here bought a Craftsman Lathe to learn how to machine and he had to disassemble the complete machine since it had sat uncovered for many years and was literally full of dirt. He was able to, with the help of a manual, completely disassemble, clean, reassemble and is now running that machine in his garage.

All he had to work with was his desire to learn.

Randy

[dkf]

A nice Lathe in both size and ergonomics is a 1960s Clausing Colchester 13"x36" lathe. Yes it is 220V and 3phase but a rotary phase converter takes care of the 3 phase issue. The Clausing I mentioned has a 2 speed motor so it is not as easy as swapping out the motor for a single phase unit. I have a South Bend 9"x36", a Clausing 13x36 I mentioned, a Hardinge DV59 and a Milltronics 20"x40" CNC. Have used lathes of dozens of makes over the years. The Clausing is a nice industrial quality little lathe with hardened and ground ways. A lot of 9" South Bends you find now are showing a lot of wear due to age and were never very rigid machines to begin with. Honestly I was never a fan of any South Bend bend lathe despite using models of them from small to large of various model years.

It also is the absolute best way to learn how the machine works, which will go miles towards learning how to run the thing. One other guy here bought a Craftsman Lathe to learn how to machine and he had to disassemble the complete machine since it had sat uncovered for many years and was literally full of dirt. He was able to, with the help of a manual, completely disassemble, clean, reassemble and is now running that machine in his garage.

I realize the idea of tearing a machine apart and painting it and replacing any broken or worn parts might be considered a daunting task, however for some one who is mechanically inclined enough to do engine work on cars it would be well within their skill set.

IF you know what you are doing. Many people end up tearing apart a lathe, putting it back together and then end up having a lathe that cuts a taper, out of square and etc. Most people are better off just getting a lathe, having it leveled, tailstock aligned, change the fluids, a minor cleanup and done with.

[customcutter]

custom cutter: unfortunately the lathe on Craig's list is a turret lathe, and not really what the guy needs. The extra time he would need to learn how to set it up would be better spent learning on an Engine Lathe first.

Since the parts are available I'd go back to looking at that older Logan he passed up earlier. With a teardown and paint job I think that machine would be what he needs.

I realize the idea of tearing a machine apart and painting it and replacing any broken or worn parts might be considered a daunting task, however for some one who is mechanically inclined enough to do engine work on cars it would be well within their skill set.

It also is the absolute best way to learn how the machine works, which will go miles towards learning how to run the thing. One other guy here bought a Craftsman Lathe to learn how to machine and he had to disassemble the complete machine since it had sat uncovered for many years and was literally full of dirt. He was able to, with the help of a manual, completely disassemble, clean, reassemble and is now running that machine in his garage.

All he had to work with was his desire to learn.

Randy

Randy, thanks for the clarification. Like I've told everyone in several post previously, I'm not a machinist. I have a 14X40 Birmingham(Taiwan) lathe, a 6X28 (taiwan) mill (manual), a 9X42 Enco mill that is basically brand new that someone was converting to CNC and it sat for 10 years. I managed to get the ball screws finally mounted with no backlash, and all the steppers working with LinuxCNC. I'm presently trying to get it hooked up to a VFD for 3ph and spindle speed control, so that I can start learning to program and use it. I also have a 6X18 #2 Reid surface grinder. I've tried for 2-3 years to find a local class on machining. The closest one is a 60 mile drive one way, and they want about $5000 to attend. Kinda pricey and I don't have the time to drive 2+ hrs a day while running a business, wish I could find something local. I used to make custom knives and would make a pin for a folder or face off a piece of 416SS for a bolster or guard. Now I'm learning to cut threads, etc. but feeds and speeds is something I need to learn. I've thought about trying to hire a retired machinst to teach me some things on weekends?

thanks,
Ken

[smokeywolf]

customcutter, for not being a machinist, you're pretty well fixed for machinery.

For feeds and speeds, refer to a Machinery's Handbook or get yourself a handy-dandy Morse pocket sized "Machinist Practical Guide". In the little Morse pocket guide you can photo-copy and enlarge the page(s) that give feed and speed recommendations for drills and endmills in various materials and post it next to each machine.

One of these days, if I can justify it, I'll retrofit my Bridgeport for 2 axis NC.

smokeywolf

[Cane_man]

brought it home today, details to follow, tired after 9 hours on the road today! the owner turned out to be a retired machinist and the lathe was spotless, and was not in commercial use just for his home shop

[customcutter]

brought it home today, details to follow, tired after 9 hours on the road today! the owner turned out to be a retired machinist and the lathe was spotless, and was not in commercial use just for his home shop

Cane, that's great! A machinist would know how to take care of his equipment properly. Hopeully he had the manuals or you can get a set from someone. Were you able to get any tooling with it? 4jaw, 3jaw, steady rest. Remember no pics, it didn't happen!!!

[dkf]

There are apps and software available these days you can use to help you calculate speeds and feeds. Some are for your computer and some are smartphones, PDAs and other types of portable devices. Don't be afraid to pick up some books on machining and read them. Sites like Enco have them. It is good to have a solid grasp on manual machining before jumping into cnc.


http://www.tradesmathcalculator.com/...And-Feeds.html

http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/th...s-for-that-too
http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/sp...able-on-itunes

[Cane_man]

got the manual, will put up pics in my Logan 210 thread

[customcutter]

There are apps and software available these days you can use to help you calculate speeds and feeds. Some are for your computer and some are smartphones, PDAs and other types of portable devices. Don't be afraid to pick up some books on machining and read them. Sites like Enco have them. It is good to have a solid grasp on manual machining before jumping into cnc.


http://www.tradesmathcalculator.com/...And-Feeds.html

http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/th...s-for-that-too
http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/sp...able-on-itunes

Looks like I've been burning up end mills by going to slow???? Rubbing instead of cutting??? thanks for the links, hopefully they are available on droids also. Too late to look for them now.

thanks,
CC

[JRPVT]

CC, nice looking lathe. It should do well for you. If you are near Tampa, MacDill AFB may still have machinists there. I spent many an evening making parts for gunsmiths near the bases I was at, MacDill having been one of them. If you know an airman, just ask. Its usually that easy.

[dkf]

Looks like I've been burning up end mills by going to slow???? Rubbing instead of cutting??? thanks for the links, hopefully they are available on droids also. Too late to look for them now.

thanks,
CC

Should be apps for Androids also, they are popular.

Keep in mind there are other factors that can limit your speed and feed other than cutter diameter, cutter speed and etc. Rigidity is a big factor in what feeds and speeds you can run without premature tool wear or failure. On smaller more hobby oriented lathes and mills you often have to be more conservative to keep acceptable tool life and prevent "chatter" due to lack of rigidity. Even large cnc machining centers are not immune to these issues.

[customcutter]

Smokeywolf, yes I wanted to have some toys to play with and make a few guns and parts with when I retire in a few more years. I stole the lathe and 2 5 gallon buckets of tooling, for $700 & a .40 highpoint pistol. The mill I got for $2700 with rotary phase converter, large vise, tooling, and 3 axis CNC that retailed for $4500 new. Just got to look for the deals and have cash in hand. I'm pretty well set now, just adding reamers, indicators, etc. I would like to have DRO on both but that can wait. Like I said most important thing is learning how to use them properly.

JRPVT, Thanks but the lathe belongs to Cane man. He is upgrading from a 7X12, so he's happier than a puppy with two peck??

My dads retired military, I'll have to ask him if they have a metal working shop. We were never able to get stationed at MacDill in 21 years of service.

dkf, yes I'm usually a little to conservative (Sometimes I make the tea party look like liberals, must be the Southern Baptist in me.) Once I get this mill wired up I think I'm going to add coolant to the lathe and the mill.

[smokeywolf]

CC, sounds like grand theft lathe and grand theft mill. I do love to hear of peers finding great deals as you did.
You got the NC retrofit I need and I ended up with the reamers you need. When I closed up the old MGM/Sony Machine Shop, part of my compensation for liquidating the assets in the 6,000 sq. ft. shop was tooling. Among that tooling was 300+ reamers. Including reamers inherited from my father and from another machinist who upon retiring, handed me a Kennedy chest full of endmills, drills, reamers and lathe (tool)bits, I probably have near 500 reamers.
Two of my sons are mechanically inclined, so I know my tools and tooling will be used and appreciated.

[Bogone]

Very good information you guys gave the gentleman buying his first lathe. I started 30 years ago with a 9 inch south bend, trade it off and got a 14x40 southbend, traded it off got a hardinge hlvh that I still have. Once bitten by the bug I didn't stop I know own a Fadal vmc, haas tool room mill, 10x50 acra knee mill, okuma cnc lathe and a 26x60 okuma engine lathe. If you need any help with advice on tooling I can help.