410 Magtech brass reloading project

[danyboy]

Been reloading rifle and revolvers before but I am new to brass shotgun shells reloading. Just bought Magtech brass for 410 shotgun and casted .401" 175 gr. bullets. Bore is choked and slugs at .397" at the muzzle. Will paper patch up to needed diameter for proper fit in brass case which is arount .430". Ordered Lane brass shotgun shell reloading tool but have no idea what caliber seating die would be the closest to use for my job.
Question: anybody ever loaded cast bullets in a 410 brass case and, if so, what bullet seating system did you use ?

[mr_nice_guy228]

I haven't yet but 444 brass fits in my Rossi.
I wouldn't recommend trying to patch it up to crimp it. Just do primer, powder, overpowder wad, slug, and a thin overshot card. The math doesn't add up trying to shove a .430 bullet through a .397 choke, It might swage down, or it might give you a dangerous overpressure situation. If you want more of a snug fit I did drop an as cast 175gr TC slug in a Remington plastic hull and it hardly moves. Slug is about .404 and my "mod choke" measures .404-.406
If you absolutely need a load in the magtech brass, I would say a roundball would be a better bet. Perhaps see how much pressure you need to swage a .430 RB through your choke with a brass rod, or any other rod of your choice. Compare it to trying to swage a patched up slug through your choke, and a bare .401
My bet is the round ball will go a lot better, and still give you 120gr if cast from pure lead.
Stay safe,
Chris

[M Hicks]

This may not help much, if at all but I have used 444 Marlin brass to make 410 shells.

If they needed any sizing at all I used a 44 Mag sizing die and ran the shell into it far enough to get it to chamber easily. I used regular LR primers and weighed out the powder charges. For seating the shot cup I used the eraser end of a pencil and calibrated hand to apply equal pressure to each one.

I used 410 load data and weighed shot charges. I found that right up to the top of the shot cup worked well and sped things up. To hold the whole mess in place I used a 7/16" gasket cutter to cut cards out of thick manila type folders and glued them in place with Duco cement.

In a round about way to try and answer your question, I think you might need to seat them by hand or use a die slightly larger in diameter than the shell is. I would think a 45 seater would work but you probably wouldn't be able to run the ram all the way up.

[danyboy]

[QUOTE=mr_nice_guy228;2601104]I haven't yet but 444 brass fits in my Rossi.
I wouldn't recommend trying to patch it up to crimp it. Just do primer, powder, overpowder wad, slug, and a thin overshot card. The math doesn't add up trying to shove a .430 bullet through a .397 choke, It might swage down, or it might give you a dangerous overpressure situation.
If you read me again, I never intended to fit a .430" cast bullet in a .397" full choke; I wouldn't do that. I meant patching up from .401" (which is .003" above muzzle diameter) to around .430" with a paper patch to make it fit in the Magtech case. The bullet would eventyally compress the paper (not the lead) to exit the .401" muzzle. I doubt the paper would bump up pressure to a dangerous level as a .430" lead bullet would. I may be wrong and tell me if so. I was just looking for an idea as to what size seating die I could use in an RCBS press to seat this bullet.
I took a remington 410 rifled slug shotshell apart. The slug was exactely .397", no shot cup, a cardboard wad on the powder and some white filler grains all the way up to the slug. Plastic was twisted back in to probably create some pressure on the slug. This .397" slug would be too loose for a 410 magtech brass which is much thinner than the plastic one.

[danyboy]

This may not help much, if at all but I have used 444 Marlin brass to make 410 shells.

If they needed any sizing at all I used a 44 Mag sizing die and ran the shell into it far enough to get it to chamber easily. I used regular LR primers and weighed out the powder charges. For seating the shot cup I used the eraser end of a pencil and calibrated hand to apply equal pressure to each one.

I used 410 load data and weighed shot charges. I found that right up to the top of the shot cup worked well and sped things up. To hold the whole mess in place I used a 7/16" gasket cutter to cut cards out of thick manila type folders and glued them in place with Duco cement.

In a round about way to try and answer your question, I think you might need to seat them by hand or use a die slightly larger in diameter than the shell is. I would think a 45 seater would work but you probably wouldn't be able to run the ram all the way up.

I didn't even plan on using any shotcup, I would just load them as if I were loading a Mauser 43 or 45-70 with smokeless powder, with a filler on top of the powder like coton puff and seat the bullet on top. As you mention, I will probably use my colt 45 seating die. I hadn't tought of it .
Thanks

[429421Cowboy]

I have never loaded .410 shells, so maybe I shouldn't stick my nose in this, but shotgun loading and rifle loading are totally different things.

The margin for safety/error in shotguns is very low, and I like to stick with things that have been done before. A little paper work and theory, with the proper extrapolation can give you a safe load in a rifle with a working pressure of 60k Psi, but you don't have that safety net with a shotgun that runs at something like 10k.

I'll not mess with the smoothbores too much, and keep my fingers and toes.

[danyboy]

I have never loaded .410 shells, so maybe I shouldn't stick my nose in this, but shotgun loading and rifle loading are totally different things.

The margin for safety/error in shotguns is very low, and I like to stick with things that have been done before. A little paper work and theory, with the proper extrapolation can give you a safe load in a rifle with a working pressure of 60k Psi, but you don't have that safety net with a shotgun that runs at something like 10k.

I'll not mess with the smoothbores too much, and keep my fingers and toes.

I see, I hear you. Makes sens. Thanks

[W.R.Buchanan]

danyboy: I'm going to pile on here. there is a lot of difference between loading for shotguns and rifles.

Here's a tidbit that should alarm you. A factory rifled slug for a .410 weighs 95 gr! Your boolits are 175 gr.

Without a wad there is nothing to seal the powder charge, you will get massive blowby. If you put the boolit in the wad you will get overpressure.

Your bullet is going to be a pretty loose fit in the barrel and as a result will not have any accuracy whatsoever.

This is not a good idea.

A more prudent Idea would be to load the Brass shells as you would regular shot shells, with buckshot. There is lots of loading data for a load like that.

Randy

[oneokie]

You should do a non-destructive test on the compression of paper before you fire any of your loads.

[danyboy]

You should do a non-destructive test on the compression of paper before you fire any of your loads.

Non-destructive test ? You mean remotely (after bracing the gun) pull the trigger let's say with a string ?

[mr_nice_guy228]

I think he means, try to compress some paper with a tool of your choice so you will realize it does not compress very much nor easily. Hydraulic press, flat pieces of metal, and about 20 sheets of paper should give you a good idea. Measure before and after.
What you are going to be doing is creating an overpressure situation in the chamber area that exceeds the limitations of the firearm in question. If your life is valuable to you I would recommend loading it in the Remington slugs, or doing the Primer, Powder, overpowder seal, Slug, thin overshot card, or just using buckshot in the Magtech cases. Your other option is to pick up a TC Contender or Encore rifle barrel in 44 Mag and chamber it for 410, as a 44-410 overbore barrel, if you want to safely shoot slugs patched up to .430

I HIGHLY recommend not loading like you want to load them. Sure they'll look pretty, but chances are you won't after you pull the trigger.

[oneokie]

Non-destructive test ? You mean remotely (after bracing the gun) pull the trigger let's say with a string ?

Would you please tell us where you are planning on doing the firing of this abomanation so that we can stay far, far away?

[kenyerian]

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Thu...tinfo/1264100/ Give ballisticproducts a call. They might be able to help you. Also CH4D have a set of dies listed for the 410 brass shotshell. I do load 410 shotshells but I haven't tried the brass ones or to load any of the slugs. I have a contender barrell that will shot 45 colt or 410 shotshells. Shotgun barrels are not made to swage down solid slugs and it is very easy to bulge your berrel. However a pistol barrel that will shoot 45 colt or 410 is a different story .http://www.ch4d.com/products/dies/caliber-list?page=62

[leeggen]

http://www.endtimesreport.com/410reloading.html

This sight has good info on the 410 reloading.
CD

[danyboy]

I think he means, try to compress some paper with a tool of your choice so you will realize it does not compress very much nor easily. Hydraulic press, flat pieces of metal, and about 20 sheets of paper should give you a good idea. Measure before and after.
What you are going to be doing is creating an overpressure situation in the chamber area that exceeds the limitations of the firearm in question. If your life is valuable to you I would recommend loading it in the Remington slugs, or doing the Primer, Powder, overpowder seal, Slug, thin overshot card, or just using buckshot in the Magtech cases. Your other option is to pick up a TC Contender or Encore rifle barrel in 44 Mag and chamber it for 410, as a 44-410 overbore barrel, if you want to safely shoot slugs patched up to .430

I HIGHLY recommend not loading like you want to load them. Sure they'll look pretty, but chances are you won't after you pull the trigger.

Did the test. Tried compressing the paper patch on the bullet using a hose clamp and tightening it with a rachet . Ony managed to squeeze about .003" of it. I originally figured the patch would tear apart behing the bllet before exiting the muzzle cause when I look down the barrel, I clearly see 2 diameter decreases, probably from cylinder to modified and from modified to full choke. So I thought the patch would come apart before reaching the muzzle. I won't use this .401 patched up to .430.

[danyboy]

OK. Instead of patching up to .430", .410 bullet fits perfect in a Federal 410SC shotcup which fits tight in this Magtech case. So, powder, over powder 7/16" card wad, shotcup filled with cream of wheat with bullet inserted at the upper end of it (would act as a sabot) . Quite sure bullet would exit the muzzle ahead of the shotcup and pressure wouldn't be as high as if I had used a patched up .430" bullet. Makes any sens ?

[kenyerian]

I don't think it is a good idea.. Please look at the picture of the thug slug sold by Ballistic Products very carefully. The .410 slug is ribbed so there is room for the slug to swage down with out bulging your barrel making it safe to shoot in a barrel that is choked. Test your barrel by seeing if you can push the wad with the slug you want to try into the barrel. The wad will stay with the bullet until it leaves the barrel and if your choke is to tight you risk ruining your barrel.

PS. This proposed combination would work with an open bore barrel and maybe an improved cylinder. Probably work in the Judge and pistols like that.

[danyboy]

I don't think it is a good idea.. Please look at the picture of the thug slug sold by Ballistic Products very carefully. The .410 slug is ribbed so there is room for the slug to swage down with out bulging your barrel making it safe to shoot in a barrel that is choked. Test your barrel by seeing if you can push the wad with the slug you want to try into the barrel. The wad will stay with the bullet until it leaves the barrel and if your choke is to tight you risk ruining your barrel.

PS. This proposed combination would work with an open bore barrel and maybe an improved cylinder. Probably work in the Judge and pistols like that.

All wright. Looked at this thug slug from Ballistic products. By the time it gets here, it would cost me
$1.00/each. Will keep looking at other options like making up some hollow slug mold or a .401" home made round ball mold or simply give up the idea of shooting slugs with this shotgun. At 6-7 bucks for a pack of 5 slugs, shoting slugs wouldn't make much sens to me.Thanks for the advice.

[kenyerian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_BUDBbdA6A Here is an interesting video on you tube making homemade slugs using a 12 point socket as a mold. With the right size socket you might be able to make your own slug with ribs that will swage down.. You could also use a round ball with some modified wads or some cut out of cardboard. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Search...20ball%20molds Track of the wolf has molds listed that might work. They also list a Lee Bullet Mold .375" diameter, 130 grain boolit that might make a good fit with the Federal Shotcup. I've thought about trying that one myself.

[danyboy]

Cut 2 inches off barrel. Bore now slugs at .412 from chamber to muzzle. Will Have to use plastic shells, Magtec brass are a PITA to reload slugs. Neck id is .433 and bore slugs at .412. Magtech people smoke good weed ! Case thickness shoud be much thicker to match plastic shells and so wads and shotcups would fit. These brass should have never been on the market. Sorry I bought these Magtech shotgun brass. My advice to all interested in buying them: don't.