Fun with the 8x58R in a Swedish RB

[jrap]

I really need to get a nice rolling block. They're beautiful firearms

[craig61a]

I don't use a washer with the 8X58R; I was thinking of the sizing of 30-40 in a .303 collet die...

[craig61a]

I really need to get a nice rolling block. They're beautiful firearms

Yes they are. Check out Allans Armory. There are a few available there.

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

I have heard of outrageous loads being fired in these rifles - stuff like is found at full jacketed levels; 2200 ft/sec with a 236 grain"Moose" bullet. (whatever that is).

Forrest

[Dutchman]

http://dutchman.rebooty.com/GB8x58RD.html

[FAsmus]

Dutchman;

Yes, I've read that.

The fellow I swapped with shared the loads with me - I will not post them since they are outrageous but he told me when I asked him (he also had read the report), but he disregarded it and found no problems, in fact stating that in many combinations of "overloads" the cases were smoked, indicating low pressures, not high at all..

~ I'm sticking to much more conservative combinations.

Forrest

[craig61a]

I run 28 grains of H4198 in mine with 1 grain of polyfil. I haven't had any signs of excessive pressure (didn't expect to). Haven't gotten around to clocking the boolits, it works great for punching paper... I prefer to keep the metal bits in the rifle, and not lodged in my skull.

[Reverend Al]

I realize that this is an old thread, but thought I'd add this ...

I bought 2 of these 8x58R RB sporters when they first were imported into Canada (couldn't turn them down at the low prices they were selling them for at that time!). I finally got one of them out to test last Sunday and using some cases that Buffalo Arms had formed from lengthened RP .45-70 cases I loaded up 22.0 grains of 4759 over a CCI 200 primer and topped it off with a 221 grain bullet cast from an old Ideal 323471 mould that I have. They drop out of that mould at .325" and I added an aluminum gas check and lubed and sized them through a .325" die in my RCBS lube sizer. Even with this big long bullet they were still nearly .0090" off the throat when seated with the gas check and one band in the case mouth! The good news is that the initial test at 50 yards shot fairly well, with 8 out of 10 rounds in a nice, round group with one left flyer and one high right flyer. Those are likely just me though since I have 63 year old eyes and the gun still has it's hard to see express open sights and a fairly heavy trigger. I didn't chronograph any of these loads yet, but will in future to see what they are doing for velocity. I'll also try a few of these rounds in the 2nd identical sporter I have to see if it will shoot them nearly as well. So far so good ...

[salon_1928]

Even with this big long bullet they were still nearly .0090" off the throat when seated with the gas check and one band in the case mouth!

A question for Reverand Al or anyone that can respond: What is an acceptable COAL (range) for this cartridge? I'm getting ready to reload for my Rolling Block for the first time and I've looked for COAL references online but haven't had much luck.

In my particular case this is where I'm at:
New PVRI 8x56R brass resized in RCBS 8x58R dies
190 gr RNFP gas checked .325"

The length of my resized case is coming in at 2.190" and the length of bullet that extends beyond the cannelure is 0.522" which will give me a COAL of 2.172" if I seat at that depth. Is that acceptable? I've heard of at least one person mention that they use 2.75". I could definitely get that length easily with this bullet as it would seat between the last lube band and the cannelure (but relatively close to the cannelure). Wiki mentions a COAL of 3.071" which would be totally out to lunch for this bullet as it would seat barely beyond the gas check. Anyway, just hoping to draw on people's experience with this round...

The other thing I'm curious about at this point is a starting powder charge. My plan is to start at 12 grains of Unique but I'm wondering if dialling that down a bit is the right thing to do. From what I've read 12 grains is considered pretty mild so I was under the impression that starting there will be safe. This gun is an 1874 RB that was rebarelled in 1891. The barrel and bore on this gun are in outstanding condition - it looks like it literally came off of the factory floor. I slugged it and it measured 0.319"/0.325".

Any advice will be much appreciated - cheers!

Edit: 1st post - thanks for the add Cast Boolits community!

[oldblinddog]

I found a loaded length of 77.5 mm with a simple search. That is 3.05 inches, so anything under that should work. Seat the bullet for best accuracy. I would start at 10 grs. of Unique, but 12 ought to be safe.

http://dutchman.rebooty.com/8x58rd.html

[salon_1928]

I found a loaded length of 77.5 mm with a simple search. That is 3.05 inches, so anything under that should work. Seat the bullet for best accuracy. I would start at 10 grs. of Unique, but 12 ought to be safe.

http://dutchman.rebooty.com/8x58rd.html

Yes...I forgot Dutchman put Norma data, etc on his site. Thanks very much for the reminder.

[FAsmus]

Salon;

You say: The length of my resized case is coming in at 2.190"

Me: My re-worked 45/90 cases measure 2.290 - which is about 0.010 short of the case length specified in Wikipedia.

You; The length of bullet that extends beyond the cannelure is 0.522" which will give me a COAL of 2.172"

Me: I shoot the LEE 8mm "Max" seated to a COAL of 3.381" = which makes the full diameter of the bullet a full 0.580 ahead of the mouth of the case. ~ Only the GC and 1/2 half of the first band of the bullet remain in the neck! (Keeping mind that the "Max" is a very long bullet at 1.200 long.)

The chamber in this rifle has the longest throat of anything I have even seen. However, the long "Max" bullet and longer case length have all worked together once I figured it out: The bullet is just barely engraved by the origin of rifling with these specifications. Thus all I have to size when reloading is the first 0.125 of the neck! This technique has also eliminated grease blow-by completely.

My load is 23.0 gr of SR4759.

Good morning, Forrest

[Reverend Al]

A question for Reverand Al or anyone that can respond: What is an acceptable COAL (range) for this cartridge? I'm getting ready to reload for my Rolling Block for the first time and I've looked for COAL references online but haven't had much luck.

I'll have to dig out a loaded round and measure the COAL for you, but even though it is a fairly long boolit of about 221 grains it is barely held in the case mouth and it's still about 90 thousandths off the throat. For it to touch rifling this long boolit would be completely out of the case mouth on a full length 8x58R case!

[FAsmus]

Reverend;

This LEE "Max" goes at 240 grains - got it with the trade deal on the rifle. I quench from the mold and size @0.3250, lubed with "50/50" from While Label.

I semi breech-seat the cartridges on the line for consistency.

I shoot the combination over our long range course of fire - closest target is 350 yard, working out to 835.

My scope is shimmed 0.070 at the rear base in order for the internal adjustment to reach all the way out there.

The rifle is light, the trigger has some creep and is a little heavy - thus it is challenging to shoot off the cross-stick rest as compared to the usual 11 pound cast bullet bolt guns.

Good morning, Forrest

[17nut]

I have found that my RB shoots like a laser and to point of aim at @ 1850fps.



10 shots at 55yds with irons

[salon_1928]

I have found that my RB shoots like a laser...

What software are you using? Interesting...the lighter loads and the lower % of powder burned I found counter-intuitive but I'm guessing as pressures increase so does the % of powder burned?

I tested my RB out last Sunday with the load I mentioned a couple of posts before and with my 190 gr bullets seated to achieve a COAL length of 2.8". Everything went very well: I was a fair bit below point of aim but 10 shots were in about a 2" circle at 50 yards. My brass is all nicely formed and now I can work on seating depth.

[17nut]

Quickload is the software.

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

I'll try to paste a couple pictures from my load book for your consideration.

I'm not very good at this so copy them and expand them in your own photo shop for complete detail and readable text.



This one is an old Varget combination recorded at 100 yards (90m)



This is a 4759 combination acquired while working on scope shims



More shim experimentation

So - these days I have finalized the shim thickness and settled on a 16-inch hold-under for the 350 distance and a 6-inch hold under for the 395 distance. This provides the ability to wind up with 4 full turns on the elevation knob + 12 minutes to reach the 835 yard distance.

Good stuff. Forrest

[Dutchman]

Danish military issue case dated 1931 and
loaded in Sweden with a soft point bullet.

case OAL = 2.272"
head diameter = .501"
rim diameter = .574"
rim thickness = .058"
bullet diameter
at case mouth = .323"

Norma commercial 8x58RD
headstamp = Norma 8mm m/89

case OAL = 2.266"
head diameter = .501"
rim diameter = .576"
rim thickness = .059"
bullet diameter
at case mouth = .323"
(same bullet as above, 196gr RN SP)

Dutchman

[sharps4590]

Wow...what a thread. 10 years old and continuously updated. Being bitten by the Norwegian/Swedish/Danish rolling block I'm glad to have found it and want to thank all who contributed. Dutchman, if you're still around I particularly enjoyed your web site, thank you for your efforts.

I have this one coming to take a peek at. Simpsons told me the bore had light pitting throughout with sharp lands. I have other very old rifles with "light pitting throughout" that shoot surprisingly well. If the rifle is a keeper I'll be using a lot of info within this thread. I've been loading, forming cases and working up loads for old rifles for 56 years and I saw nothing in the thread that intimidated me. Thanks again.

https://www.simpsonltd.com/products/z36318