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Thread: Fun with the 8x58R in a Swedish RB

  1. #61
    Boolit Buddy
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    Bear in mind tha the RB chamber was designed for the 227grain round nose bullet and cut long accordingly (@" freebore or better).

    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #62
    Boolit Buddy
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    It appears there's much to "bear in mind" with this old cartridge.
    "In general, the art of government is to take as much money as possible from one class of citizens and give it to another class of citizens" Voltaire'

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  3. #63
    Boolit Buddy Andy_P's Avatar
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    Ok - enough! I haven't shot mine in almost five years, but this is my incentive. Great info.

  4. #64
    Boolit Buddy
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    What the heck Andy, you started this thread 10 years ago!!.... Frankly, I'm glad you did and it survived!!!
    "In general, the art of government is to take as much money as possible from one class of citizens and give it to another class of citizens" Voltaire'

    The common virtue of capitalism is the sharing of equal opportunity. The common vice of socialism is the equal sharing of misery

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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharps4590 View Post
    It appears there's much to "bear in mind" with this old cartridge.
    You can learn from those who have made it work 100% or go invent the wheel again all by yourself.
    It is a rifle from a time when a decade ment the difference between cutting edge design and obsolete.
    So there are inherent mistakes, by todays standards, in the design and if you steer around those it will be a tackdriver.

  6. #66
    Boolit Buddy Gunfreak25's Avatar
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    Interesting to see you shooting .005 oversize boolits. I am running cast in my 8x56r Hungarian which slugs .332 but the Lee .338 bullets chamber with no issues, so that is what I'm loading with. A full .006 over. Buckshot had some pretty good results doing this as did others.

    I've had similar issues with H4198 and don't use it anymore as I just don't do fillers in smokeless. Personal preference only.

    I've switched to higher charges of slower powders and so far the results are good.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson

  7. #67
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by 17nut View Post
    You can learn from those who have made it work 100% or go invent the wheel again all by yourself.
    It is a rifle from a time when a decade ment the difference between cutting edge design and obsolete.
    So there are inherent mistakes, by todays standards, in the design and if you steer around those it will be a tackdriver.
    Don't know who said it but I try to adhere to it, "learn from other people's mistakes, you'll never live long enough to make them all yourself".
    "In general, the art of government is to take as much money as possible from one class of citizens and give it to another class of citizens" Voltaire'

    The common virtue of capitalism is the sharing of equal opportunity. The common vice of socialism is the equal sharing of misery

    NRA Benefactor 2008

  8. #68
    I got mine a few years ago from Simpsons. Ive been shooting #0 buckshot (I set my caliper to .330) with a pinch of Unique. Ive not chronographed the load but will hold minute of Red Squirrel at 25 yds, and rabbits at 50yd. I have a Lee 175 mold that I'm going to try when the weather warms up.

  9. #69
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    I don't remember seeing it mentioned in this thread and while brainstorming over loads it occurred to me that for those of us using reformed 45-70 brass the 33 Winchester is very close to the 8 X 58RD. There's the obvious slight difference in bullet diameter and the 33 has a longer neck. I tried a few of the starting loads for the 33 from my old Hornady manual and none showed any signs of pressure. Nor were any particularly accurate with three of the medium rate powders showing signs of bullet tipping with a 200 gr. cast bullet. Those loads were all travelling faster than the Unique loads yet the Unique showed absolutely no signs of bullet tipping. In my rifle 15 grs. of Unique went south while 13.5 grs. shot sub 1 inch at 50 yards with the same 200 gr. bullet. It's been too windy to set up my chrono to see where I am so....not sure what can be drawn from that...yet. A friend from church gave me a new Lee 170 gr., round nose, gas checked mold so I'm gonna cast some of those and see what they do.

    I understand the cartridge was originally designed/used with the 220+ gr. bullet and that is in the offing. I simply don't have the mold yet.
    Last edited by sharps4590; 02-09-2018 at 07:55 AM.
    "In general, the art of government is to take as much money as possible from one class of citizens and give it to another class of citizens" Voltaire'

    The common virtue of capitalism is the sharing of equal opportunity. The common vice of socialism is the equal sharing of misery

    NRA Benefactor 2008

  10. #70
    Boolit Buddy Andy_P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharps4590 View Post
    I don't remember seeing it mentioned in this thread and while brainstorming over loads it occurred to me that for those of us using reformed 45-70 brass the 33 Winchester is very close to the 8 X 58RD. There's the obvious slight difference in bullet diameter and the 33 has a longer neck. I tried a few of the starting loads for the 33 from my old Hornady manual and none showed any signs of pressure. Nor were any particularly accurate with three of the medium rate powders showing signs of bullet tipping with a 200 gr. cast bullet. Those loads were all travelling faster than the Unique loads yet the Unique showed absolutely no signs of bullet tipping. In my rifle 15 grs. of Unique went south while 13.5 grs. shot sub 1 inch at 50 yards with the same 200 gr. bullet. It's been too windy to set up my chrono to see where I am so....not sure what can be drawn from that...yet. A friend from church gave me a new Lee 170 gr., round nose, gas checked mold so I'm gonna cast some of those and see what they do.

    I understand the cartridge was originally designed/used with the 220+ gr. bullet and that is in the offing. I simply don't have the mold yet.
    The problem with loads for the 8X58RD is that the first "pressure sign" you'll see is a damaged firearm.

    I primarily use a 230gr PB cast bullet, and I limit my loads to those that keep the MV for that bullet weight below 1800 fps, and then only with the slower powders, in order to keep pressures to 28K CUP and lower.
    Last edited by Andy_P; 02-09-2018 at 08:20 AM.

  11. #71
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    If that's the case then there were no pressure signs. Primers for all loads were still quite round with zero indications of cratering. I find it rather difficult to believe that the very first sign of pressure will be damage to the rifle, not after over 30 years of working with falling block and break action rifles in old, obsolete, out of production cartridges. The roller can't be that different. There was only 3 of the 5 cases of the 4064 load I felt were ever so slightly sticky so it was probably some other cause. Velocities should have been in the 1700-1800 range other than the longer barrel of the roller perhaps adding a few fps. Pressures should have been lower than the 33 WCF loads due to its jacketed bullet and the cast I was shooting. The H-4895 load is the same as one I see posted here.

    230 gr. mold is ordered.
    "In general, the art of government is to take as much money as possible from one class of citizens and give it to another class of citizens" Voltaire'

    The common virtue of capitalism is the sharing of equal opportunity. The common vice of socialism is the equal sharing of misery

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  12. #72
    Boolit Buddy FAsmus's Avatar
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    I'd like to share the fun: My Swedish Krag is for sale..

    Gentlemen;

    Yes it is true. I've enjoyed this rifle a lot - but it is time to move on.

    The deal would include the cases, dies, mold and scope base.

    PM me if you're interested.

    Good morning, Forrest

  13. #73
    Boolit Bub pcmacd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy_P View Post
    Attachment 170112
    Attachment 170113

    Nice pieces!

    Mine's a Plain Jane sporter with the Tang Sight from Track of the Wolf that was mentionned above. Works well, but my only gripe is that while it is adjustable for windage, you have to reset it each time you change the elevation - you can't have it all for $60.

    Load development continues. I do not intend to move the 230gr PB cast bullet past 1800 fps, and then only with the slower powders, keeping pressures to 28K CUP and lower. Doing that greatly increases brass life too (with annealing every few uses).
    Is this the 3" or 5" sight? Track of the wolf says the 3"is not tall enough for a Remington Rolling block. I know the sporters have different front sights, but which is your?

    tx

    mac

  14. #74
    Boolit Bub pcmacd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz330 View Post
    Jack, try Track of the Wolf for roller sights for the tang. I got one for 58 bucks IIRC.
    Try some 4759 and see if that does anything for you. I got the best group with 13 gr of Unique 2 inches. but got fairly good groups both with 5744 and the SR4759. If you preasure up to much you will get cratered primers fairly early because of the oversize firing pin and hole. The 8MMs had the receivers rehardened and new blocks installed for the higher preasure smokeless round although it never hurts to be cautious. They are a fun rifle though.
    http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(gja...m=RS-CREED-3-E

    Try this above.

    Bob
    Which height is this sight, 3" or 5"?

    tx

    mac

  15. #75
    Boolit Master

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    sharps4590, the Rolling Block is different in when you do have a problem and the gun breaks the most likely location for the loose parts is in an eye socket. Use caution in loading for these old guns. There are pictures on the internet of blocks broken thru the pin holes and pins also breaking.
    If you are getting sticky cases the breech block could be springing open slightly when fired.
    There is a fella that sells ammo he produces here in Az. and has written a few articles for gun magazines, Bob Shell is his name. He wrote an article on a Swede RB that he had loaded up to higher velocity than a 30-06, and also managed to spread the action open some. The article may still be available on the internet. Very lucky fella.
    My Swede is 150 years old so most of its history is unknown to me so I treat it gently.

  16. #76
    Boolit Master

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    I have found the Lyman 323470, about 170grs, Loverin style with mostly bore sized body shoots very well in my RB. I load this in front of 12grs of Unique and it is very accurate even at 100 yards and makes a good small game load.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check