SHOT Show Conversation > Powder Coating

[ricklaut]

Just a drive by to mention an interesting conversation I had today at SHOT Show with one of the reps at the Lyman booth.

After I asked "what's new", she talked a bit about their bottom pour melting pot they hope to release in the future... I mentioned powder coating to her and pointed out that as a boolit caster, my Lyman lube sizer was obsolete. She looked at me like I had 2 heads for a moment, and then started asking questions (leading? lead hardness? residue? tools required? etc). I gave her a high level overview of how I do powder coating, and the benefits I've seen, then pointed her here for more info. She (unfortunately I didn't catch her name) was definitely intrigued, and I expect her to drop by here to read up on all of the R&D that's gone into coating .

[TheDoctor]

I would like to think that a company that makes reloading and casting tools would at least have someone that browses the worlds premiere casting forum! But, I know where my thinking has been way wrong before.

[Sgtonory]

Good for you. Would maybe love to see something related to PC from a reloading supplyer.

[Russel Nash]

You should have mentioned that it would be nice if:

A. They made a hollow point mould like Mihec's

B. That with powder coating there is no longer a need for a lube groove

You should tell us more about your SHOT show trip.

[leadman]

I have found in talking with people in the gun industry many do not stay current on developments done outside the manufacturers.
I mentioned this forum to a guy at Hodgdon Powder and he went off on a rant about how everything on the internet is a untrue and everyone lies to make themselves more important. I mentioned the Hi-Tek coating and said it is a fad just like moly coating and would not work or last long. I mentioned that Bayou, Gateway, and SNS are all using the coating and he just made a "humpf" sound.
A guy was supposed to call me from RCBS about a pid for their pot but that never happened either.
Andy Lee at Lee Precision does listen and will discuss a problem or idea as well as anyone here.

It is good the lady was interested enough to get some info from you.

[smokesahoy]

for many its just the 9-5. they have other hobbies.

whats cool about this place is most people think of their hobby much more than they think about their job. much better knowledge.

[ricklaut]

@The Doctor: That's the same thing that went through my mind. Many companies don't really know how to innovate; it's probably easy to think "what can change with cast boolits..."

@Russel: I may get a chance to circle back there today; I'll bring those back up if I do. I'll try to remember to take her a few of my PC boolits too. I wish Lee was at SHOT - apparently they don't go. I'll try to circle back with more SHOT info here; I'm mostly over in the swaging sub-forum.

@leadman: COMPLETELY agree, and I've seen the same things. I took an idea to RCBS yesterday for a friend of mine. He was intrigued, but we'll see where it goes. This wasn't the first time they've heard it, it addresses a common complaint and it's not difficult or expensive. We'll see.

@smokesahoy: Absolutely!

[popper]

A special tumbler? Rebranded ES gun? Cast boolits is not in Hornady's line. Don't think the big box mould makers will have grooveless moulds for a long time. Not enough market plus any testing is not in the books. I do expect more commercial casters to pick it up. Just too easy to do plus sell them as cast, coated, buyer does the sizing. QC on rifle boolits will be a little tougher. Then there is the Ca. problem.

[Ken73]

And to think I was right across the street from the SHOT show all week at a company function. Wish I could have gone!

I suspect Lee could stand to profit the most - as their sizer dies are ideal for this (not to mention cheap!) I would think they could make changes as a smaller company easier than a larger company, too.

In my business, the people that scoff at new ideas are the ones that typically wind up in the news for all the wrong reasons.

[Love Life]

Was she good looking?

[Artful]

Was she good looking?

Aren't they all -










Well maybe not all my type

[btroj]

Having a person spend time looking at web sites like this is an expense for a company. The potential for finding an innovation that generates enough income to be worth while is pretty small.

We need to remember that this site is a very small portion of all casters and only a small portion the people here powder coat.

Just because you like a specific item/method doesn't mean it appeals to a large enough segment of the overall shooting world to justify the RD expense.

[Maximumbob54]

I can't believe corporate types don't monitor boards. It's a source of free reviews, R&D, advertising, and everything else they would want. It's hard to believe at this point they would be oblivious to bullet coatings. I can see how one rep might be missing this but surely they have meetings to keep up to date with what the customer is up to. And if all this is false then dang it they should be doing these things.

[fcvan]

When the industry sees that dry tumble coating is cheaper than barrel electroplating we might see 22lr become cheaper. The guy who automates the tumble, shake, and bake for 22lr and pistol boolits will be a happy guy. He's that guy that bought a used pizza oven and spends his nights like a mad scientist in his laboratory. Bwahahaha!

[fcvan]

Okay, he's actually using an IR heater and a conveyor driven by a rotisserie motor. And he's not that mad, he's a happy scientist

[btroj]

I can't believe corporate types don't monitor boards. It's a source of free reviews, R&D, advertising, and everything else they would want. It's hard to believe at this point they would be oblivious to bullet coatings. I can see how one rep might be missing this but surely they have meetings to keep up to date with what the customer is up to. And if all this is false then dang it they should be doing these things.

No, it is an expense. In case nobody noticed companies right now are downsizing heavily. Payroll is the single largest expense for most businesses so this is an area that would be cut.

Lyman doesn't change much of anything these days, what makes you think they are listening to anyone?

I don't think the latest, greatest idea in anything is on the radar at these companies.

[DRNurse1]

The big guys seem to prefer letting the little guy do the R&D, deal with the multiple failures, then buy the rights to the one that finally works. At least that seems to be the general theme. Keep it up, little guys, you are the innovators.

[dragon813gt]

I can't believe corporate types don't monitor boards. It's a source of free reviews, R&D, advertising, and everything else they would want. It's hard to believe at this point they would be oblivious to bullet coatings.

Why is it hard to believe. I'm a member here and while I know about it. I don't care about it right now. It's a simple numbers game. Most reloaders buy jacketed bullets. Most people that shoot cast bullets buy them. Only a small percentage cast their own. And a very very small percentage that cast their own know about powder coating. People seem to forget it's a large world out there and most people don't share the same interests as you.

[dverna]

This is the land of opportunity. If it is such a great idea, start a company. What would you (or Lyman) do that is not being done?

Would you develop a better gun than the $60 HF PC gun and sell it for $150? Better ovens than we can buy at Wally World? $10 powders that are better than $5 powders? Trays? Spray booths?

So far, only Hi-Tek has made inroads in the commercial coated cast bullet market. But, as far as I know, none of the big US commercial casters have changed to it. This is something that has worked for (reportedly) 20 years in Australia and only a handful of companies are on board here in the US. Hi-Tek has some sales to home casters but I doubt they have more than 1000 customers in the US. Is it really worth the effort to deal with so few? With one liter of the stuff covering thousands of bullets, it is small market for them - or anyone else. What is the market for PC?

Here is a perfect example. Frozone builds PID's. A useful product. Lyman could do it easily but they do not think the market is large enough. Frozone fills the niche. He has a good product that works very well. If he was selling 500 a month, Lyman may be interested but he would be out of business. Not because his product is inferior, but because he cannot deal with the demand unless he starts a company; and when the volume is there, Lyman will have them made in China and undercut him by 25% or more.

Don Verna

[Maximumbob54]

You guys have seen the soon to be released Lyman Mag 25, right???

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/b...g25furnace.php

It would seem to me that someone out there is watching and listening. Now let Lee make one and it's game on.

It wouldn't shock me to find PC'ed bullets on the shelf at some point. The big boys could surely set up some good automation to do it better than you would think possible. And remember that it's only recently that ranges are starting to frown on exposed lead bullets. Plated isn't such an old product and they have already gone mainstream. Even the big names have been using them. I know Federal uses the heck out of them. Let them find out PC'ing costs less and then poof here they come.