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Thread: 357 sig

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    357 sig

    I been toying with getting a sig in 357 sig I had a glock 10 to 15 years ago that I traded I only load a few rounds since I bought Remington golden sabors wrong bullets for the sig I heard that the sig is hard to load and you can not use cast?

  2. #2
    Boolit Bub

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    I personally wouldn't say 357Sig is hard to load. I use a 40S&W carbide die to size the body of the case and then a 357Sig die to size the case neck/mouth. It adds an extra step to the process but eliminates the need to lube cases when using only a 357Sig steel die.

    As to using cast bullets in the 357Sig I don't see why not provided the bullet has the right profile and hardness. Overall length is obviously a key factor as you're not going to be able to just load a 9mm 125gr LRN as the length will be too long. You'd need to use a truncated cone design and keep an eye on overall length.

    Shooting cast in a Glock chambered in 357Sig with a factory barrel will have the issue of polygonal rifling and cast bullets but that's not unique to 357Sig.

  3. #3
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    I do it all the time just be careful about getting enough crimp on the bullet so you don't get any setback.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    Just loaded some test rounds for an incoming G22 conversion barrel.
    I used PC'd Lee 120TCs seated to 1.145" COAL behind 5.4g AA#2
    Lubed the case prior to sizing & wiped-off prior to flare/powder/seat.
    Then used a LFCD for a light crimp.
    Will try out the .40 carbide setup in my turret next time.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    I have never seen the issue with loading 357 sig. Just an extra step if you want to avoid lube.

    You can use cast, just a little more work. Same alloy you would use in a 357 mag. What I use a 158gr NOE mold, makes a 145gr HP. Sized down for use in a 9mm barrel. Can even crimp them to prevent set back. I found a load using 40S&W brass, yes shorter, but with a crimp no set back. And the LEE factory crimp works on the shorter case better than factory length.

  6. #6
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    I do not (yet) load for 357 SIG, but I like how it duplicates the 125 grain 357 Magnum ballistics so closely. As felon repellent, the 357 Magnum flat-out WORKS. I have fired the cartridge in Glock and SIG-Sauer full-size pistols; subjective recoil seems to me about like a 40 S&W, with louder report.

    The off-putting element of the caliber for me has been that the 357 SIG is supposed to get its headspace on the case mouth, like straight-wall autopistol rounds do. I have loaded both 30 Luger and 30 Mauser pistol rounds for many years, and IME if you don't set a decent crimp on seated bullets in those tiny necks you will have "telescoped" bullets receding backwards during cycling. These two cartridges headspace on their shoulders, like any self-respecting 30-06 or 270 rifle does. It is obvious that even a small shoulder like that on a 357 SIG offers a lot more indexing surface than a case mouth does.

    What say those of you who actually have been extensively hands-on with this caliber? TIA.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  7. #7
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    I bought a used G27 almost three years ago. It came with a 357SIG NO NAME barrel in the box. It was close to a year till I even tried it in the gun! WOW what a BLAST! PUN INTENDED! Less recoil than the 40, but 25-30% more blast and ACCURATE!! I found a deal on a used KKM G23 conversion barrel and grabbed that too... I have been shooting and loading it since. I like it SO MUCH, it hasn't come out and I bought a second G23!! I have shot 125G bullets to almost mid 1400 fps in a 4" bbl! Thinking to myself, This would make for a awesome small short carbine load. (So would the bigger 9x25 Dillon!)

    Last year I read that Glock was going out of the Gen3 Business... I always wanted a G24. SO I ordered one and immediately ordered a KKM 357SIG barrel for the G24! This is THE MOST accurate Glock I have ever shot! My g20 will shoot 4" @ 50 me shooting... This darn thing will do 2"!!! I can keep a mag on a 8" paster out @100 yards standing supported!! The thing is just a joy to shoot! Ooh I am just past 1600 fps in top load with a 125G bullet from the 6.25" bbl.

    You need to think RIFLE when you load for the 357SIG. I have difficulty loading some bullets, I now use a M-Die as a extra step and all problem disappeared! I taper crimp it, BUT don't load to head space off mouth, use the shoulder.

    I resize Sierra .357 150 SP bullets to .355 and load them as I find them a lil tougher than 147g 9MM. But Nosler bullets (124 & 147) area a nice, but soft bullet for the sig. There RN profile loads well.

    I am waiting on my smith to re-chamber a 9MM AR barrel for me. When he dose I will have a 357SIG AR upper to complete!!
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackleberry41 View Post
    I have never seen the issue with loading 357 sig. Just an extra step if you want to avoid lube.

    You can use cast, just a little more work. Same alloy you would use in a 357 mag. What I use a 158gr NOE mold, makes a 145gr HP. Sized down for use in a 9mm barrel. Can even crimp them to prevent set back. I found a load using 40S&W brass, yes shorter, but with a crimp no set back. And the LEE factory crimp works on the shorter case better than factory length.
    Always thought .357sig headspaces on case mouth & not on shoulder...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig556r View Post
    Always thought .357sig headspaces on case mouth & not on shoulder...

    Much confusion on the head space settings on this one.

    Shoulder makes more sense to me, Why use a case mount that tiny and unreliable. (Remember this is a "RIFLE" type loading caliber) Unlike most pistol calibers, this case grows with sizing and shooting.

    CW
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  10. #10
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by cwlongshot View Post
    Much confusion on the head space settings on this one.

    Shoulder makes more sense to me, Why use a case mount that tiny and unreliable. (Remember this is a "RIFLE" type loading caliber) Unlike most pistol calibers, this case grows with sizing and shooting.

    CW
    "...According to the official C.I.P. (Commission Internationale Permanente Pour L'Epreuve Des Armes A Feu Portatives) 2008 revised documents, the .357 SIG headspaces on the case mouth (H2).[5] Some US sources are in conflict with this standard.[6] However, the cartridge and chamber drawing in the ANSI/SAAMI American National Standards also clearly shows the cartridge headspacing on the cartridge mouth.[7] Likewise, US reloading supplier Lyman has published that the .357 SIG headspaces on the case mouth..."

  11. #11
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    I love my .357 Sig and use the 40S&W sizer first followed by the Sig sizer. A 124/125 TC shoots fine and loads easy. And as they say it is a blast. You can get the .357 Sig in a Sig, M&P or Glock, I have had all three and prefer the Sig or M&P over the Glock unless you change the barrel.

  12. #12
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    I shoot 357 sig in a STI 2011 for IPSC. I load 160-185 grain projectiles at 175pf. Around 1.24 inches long.

    Using dillon dies, I resize until the case fits my chamber. I mainly use 40 cases too.

    There is a 168 grain shaped bullet that works well in the glocks. 168z from accurate molds.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9.3X62AL View Post
    I do not (yet) load for 357 SIG, but I like how it duplicates the 125 grain 357 Magnum ballistics so closely. As felon repellent, the 357 Magnum flat-out WORKS. I have fired the cartridge in Glock and SIG-Sauer full-size pistols; subjective recoil seems to me about like a 40 S&W, with louder report.

    The off-putting element of the caliber for me has been that the 357 SIG is supposed to get its headspace on the case mouth, like straight-wall autopistol rounds do. I have loaded both 30 Luger and 30 Mauser pistol rounds for many years, and IME if you don't set a decent crimp on seated bullets in those tiny necks you will have "telescoped" bullets receding backwards during cycling. These two cartridges headspace on their shoulders, like any self-respecting 30-06 or 270 rifle does. It is obvious that even a small shoulder like that on a 357 SIG offers a lot more indexing surface than a case mouth does.

    What say those of you who actually have been extensively hands-on with this caliber? TIA.
    SAAMI says case mouth. The gauges for cutting the chamber of the barrel goes off the shoulder. Its debated and there are merits to both. All factory .357sig ammo I have run into pushes the should back pretty far so it doesn't come close to touching it. That ammo I could see it head spacing on the case mouth. On your reloads you can move the shoulder where you want for the most part.

    I usually use 124gr-147gr cast in mine. The 9mm ranch Dog design works good. I also have an accurate 35-147s mold and an MP 125gr TC mold that I use too. I never had any problems shooting cast. Using stock Glock barrels.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Case mouth on a bottle neck for only this single cartridge seems...whatever. Seen it said its the mouth. All I know is, those converted 40S&W run fine, be the shoulder holding them back. Not all 40S&W, so far its been PMC brass thats consistently long enough. Long enough where with forming you can square the case mouth so it will flare and crimp on a cast bullet. Other brands are generally short, trimmer doesn't touch them, or just a little spot, can't get a good roll crimp. The Lee factory crimp does a better job on the shorter case than it does 357 sig brass. I fiddled with it, working backwards from length required to get that bullet to feed thru a magazine, trimmed a case back till it was at the crimp groove. Which is right about length of a formed PMC 40S&W case. Linotype, gas check, same as used in my 357mag.

    Found 800x gives best velocity with that weight, just harder to meter.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig556r View Post
    "...According to the official C.I.P. (Commission Internationale Permanente Pour L'Epreuve Des Armes A Feu Portatives) 2008 revised documents, the .357 SIG headspaces on the case mouth (H2).[5] Some US sources are in conflict with this standard.[6] However, the cartridge and chamber drawing in the ANSI/SAAMI American National Standards also clearly shows the cartridge headspacing on the cartridge mouth.[7] Likewise, US reloading supplier Lyman has published that the .357 SIG headspaces on the case mouth..."
    Yup I know and have read this.

    Dosent mean its the only way. I have been loading a long time, dont claim to be smarter then anyone. This simply didnt make any sence to me so I set mine to HS off the shoulder.

    This caliber in my guns is crazy accurate, 100% reliable and above all makes me happy.

    Your your own person, its still a free country. Your mileagle may varry.

    Good luck,

    CW
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9.3X62AL View Post
    I do not (yet) load for 357 SIG, but I like how it duplicates the 125 grain 357 Magnum ballistics so closely. As felon repellent, the 357 Magnum flat-out WORKS. I have fired the cartridge in Glock and SIG-Sauer full-size pistols; subjective recoil seems to me about like a 40 S&W, with louder report.

    The off-putting element of the caliber for me has been that the 357 SIG is supposed to get its headspace on the case mouth, like straight-wall autopistol rounds do. I have loaded both 30 Luger and 30 Mauser pistol rounds for many years, and IME if you don't set a decent crimp on seated bullets in those tiny necks you will have "telescoped" bullets receding backwards during cycling. These two cartridges headspace on their shoulders, like any self-respecting 30-06 or 270 rifle does. It is obvious that even a small shoulder like that on a 357 SIG offers a lot more indexing surface than a case mouth does.

    What say those of you who actually have been extensively hands-on with this caliber? TIA.
    If you read any of the several reloading manuals I own they all say it headspaces on the case mouth. However if you look at a picture of a 357 Sig headspace gauge it doesn’t even have a case mouth, just a shoulder. My experience has been that you can roll crimp them and they work fine. In practicality most straight wall auto pistol cartridges really headspace on the extractor with the case mouth just a secondary. I imagine the Sig really headspaces on the extractor as well, with the shoulder as secondary.

    Last edited by Elkins45; 01-17-2019 at 07:43 PM.
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  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    The photograph of the headspace gauge says it all, doesn't it?
    Rule 303

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    "In practicality most straight wall auto pistol cartridges really head space on the extractor with the case mouth just a secondary."

    Interesting how this fact is over looked.

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by ioon44 View Post
    "In practicality most straight wall auto pistol cartridges really head space on the extractor with the case mouth just a secondary."

    Interesting how this fact is over looked.
    How many Glock shooters shoot 40 S&W in their 10mm based on this premise? Quite a few in my experience.

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I’d suggest examining to see if your guns are head spacing on the extractor before taking it on faith that they do. It isn’t hard to determine.

    For those of you that think you “Know” that...care to explain how you know that?

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check