patching a 43 spanish?

[Dframe]

Going to try and load some 43 spanish for a friends roller. Book says nominal diameter for the round is .439. SO is anyone paper patching for this round. I was thinking (not always a good thing) that for light plinking loads one might paper up a 44 special or 44/40 boolit for this rifle. Has anyone tried this? Or am I way off base?

[fouronesix]

I tried it with a PP cast design and using proven techniques that work for other BPCR rifles in other calibers. Such poor results that I gave up. Had a gut feeling that wasting more time and money wasn't smart. Got a custom grease groove mold, sized to about .441" and never looked back. What you are looking at is a very broad standard .439" which would also include some of the earliest jacketed bullets produced for military arms.

Give it a go and report results. I never tried patching pistol bullets for the 43 Spanish but it might work?

[Nobade]

I shoot my Argentine carbine with nothing but paper patched boolits. As fouronesix mentioned, the sizes of these rifles are all over the place. My particular rifle is .433" X .447", and a fired case will take a .443" bullet. I have a Rapine mould that throws a .437" bullet, and it patches up to .443 to be a slip fit in the case.

The single biggest thing I did to make the rifle really shoot was to use 44-90 cases, size them in a 43 Spanish die, and trim them to match the length of the chamber which is about 3/8 inch longer than a regular 43 Spanish case. Evidently they were chambered like this to make room for fouling so the rifle could be fired many times in battle.

Other than that, I don't do anything special. 5.6cc FFg, a 7/16" card wad, 1/4 inch grease cookie, another card wad, and seat the bullet so it is just shy of the rifling. It shoots far better with PP than it ever did with grease groove bullets, and will hold about 3 MOA most of the time which I figure ain't bad considering the short barrel, sights, and 20 pound trigger pull.

Oh, no reloading dies are used except to set the shoulder initially. Just shoot, decap, clean, recap, and go again.

-Nobade

[Green Lizzard]

like nobade i also use 44-90 cases but my gun takes them full length, the rims on the batch that i got were a little too thin so i had to fireform them to headspace on the almost no shoulder. using a 44 mag bullet from a lee mold 320 grains, also no dies

[Lead pot]

I would like to advice you guys that have a .43 Spanish. I have had and used several 43's. I would make a chamber cast to see what you really have.
There were four different cartridges called the 43 Spanish. A carbine (11x46R (433 Carbine) this round was shorter. These are rare but I see them occasionally.
There is a 43 Reformado, 11.5 x 57R (Reformado) it has a slight bottleneck that is almost a straight which is not quite a 43 cal but it has a bell shaped case with a 454 bullet.
There is also a 43 Spanish that takes a 433 bullet that is like a .433 Peabody. 11x58R (433 full length 43 Spanish)

Than there is the most common 43 Spanish, which takes a 439 bullet. 11.15 x 58R (439 bullet 43 Spanish)

[Dframe]

Great discussion guys. I'm going to have to have my buddy slug his barrel and perhaps do a chamber cast. Thanks for all the great information.

[bigted]

patch to your throat and a greese cookie and stand in wonder of your rifle. my barrel measures .439 but my throate will take a .454 max so i settled on a .452 inch diameter patched boolit. does very well and the bore is still getting more and more healed up with rounds thru it. mine is a 35 inch long rifle but it shoots lights out to 100 yds so far.

my boolit is an Accurate mold ... but ... the number will have to wait for me to get home from the states as im tending my dad after a tripple bypass surgery.

[Dframe]

Hope all is well with your dad. Thanks for all the information.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Have had a Roller in 43 Spanish about 30 years. Discovered with mine a 40-1 .443 (my .439 mold lapped out alot) would bump up and shoot to 4 inches at 100 yards from the 1870 barrel. A 40-1 from the .446 "Egyptian" mold shoots better at a bit over 3 ". That only took me a couple years to learn the hard way. Everyone kept saying slug the bore (mine is .441) when they should have said fill the throat.
Some years ago saw some origonal ammo. Boolits were hollow base at .439. I guess Remington realised they had the need to make a round that would chamber in any rifle anywhere under all nasty conditions and still shoot with enough accuracy to hit a company of men at 500 yards.
Mike in Peru

[Argentino]

I was thinking (not always a good thing) that for light plinking loads one might paper up a 44 special or 44/40 boolit for this rifle. Has anyone tried this? Or am I way off base?

I´ve tried that on my Argentine´79 roller.

.44 special SWC 240 gns (0.431") paper patched up to .444" (wet-2 wraps of a really thick paper). 8.0 gns of Unique and 1/2 grain of kapok as a filler.

Nice plinking load that stil needs some development, but I was able to get 3 1/2" to 4" groups from a rest at a little more than 50 yards. I know this bullet is too light and acuraccy is not good but seems to be enough for me since the bore on my '79 argie is badly eroded at the muzzle end and trigger pull seems to be like 10 lbs...

[Dframe]

Thanks Argentino (and Mike in Peru) for sharing your experiances. Sounds like a great place to start with my buddys rifle. I think thats exactly what he was hoping for. A great plinking load to get his roller operational again.

[EdZ KG6UTS]

Oh, no reloading dies are used except to set the shoulder initially. Just shoot, decap, clean, recap, and go again.

-Nobade

What powder are you using? I've just started to play with my .43 Spanish which appears to be an un issued contract overrun from Remington in the original .43 not reformado. Right now I'm using a Lyman .439 mould and Buffalo Arms brass.


EdZ KG6UTS

[EdZ KG6UTS]

[QUOTE= and trigger pull seems to be like 10 lbs...[/QUOTE]

You can change the spring to help with the trigger nasties. I think I got my spring from http://www.rollingblockparts.com/ but you can make your own.

Edz KG6UTS

[Nobade]

What powder are you using? I've just started to play with my .43 Spanish which appears to be an un issued contract overrun from Remington in the original .43 not reformado. Right now I'm using a Lyman .439 mould and Buffalo Arms brass.
EdZ KG6UTS

Mostly using Diamondback FFg or some old Moosic Goex Fg. I have shot it some with homemade as well, and it does about the same thing. I sometimes very lightly duplex load it if I don't want to use the blow tube - .5cc AA5744 under the main charge will keep the bore shiny.

-Nobade

[John in PA]

I'd suggest a chamber cast AND slug the bore. I second the comment above about bore dimensions varying greatly in this caliber. I think most of the Peabody's bores run closer to .445-.446. Chambers are *usually* generous enough to chamber ammo made with these bullets. (essentially becomes .44-77 and works just fine with those dies and molds) I've found poor accuracy with the "standard" 439186 Lyman mold as it is too small a bullet for the guns I've tried it in. I think I'd try for total neck diameter of the loaded round to be between .005-.010" smaller than chamber cast if black poder will be used, tighter tolerance OK for smokeless. Perfectly OK for black powder and MILD smokeless loads to swage cast bullets a few thousandths down to bore size, and many of them shoot best with a bullet better matched to the chamber and throat than to the exact bore diameter.

[Dframe]

Thanks for your input. I would be loading black powder. And will encourage my buddy to do both the chamber cast and to slug his barrel. More information is always better.