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Thread: 50 BMG Loading and Loads - NOE 513-850G-FN Boolit

  1. #1
    Boolit Master



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    50 BMG Loading and Loads - NOE 513-850G-FN Boolit

    I received a PM from another member on the site asking how I was Sizing and Gas Check Seating for the NOE 513-850G-FN Boolit. Since the last production of this mold, there does not seem to be many posts on the Boolit, so I thought I would start one.

    My actual shooting with my AR-50 and this Boolit is on hold until mid Spring because the Ranges I use will not allow shooting it, and the weather is not conducive to accessing other appropriate shooting areas until the spring. In the mean time, I thought I might focus the discussions for this Boolit and thread on the Loading Bench for both those with questions and those with experience with the mold and loading the NOE 513-850G-FN Boolit in the 50BMG; or any other rifle they may be using it in.


    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________

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    I hand seat the gas checks by placing a boolit on top of the Gas Check which is on a flat hard surface, and then pounding (tapping robustly) the nose with a Hard Wood mallet to firmly seat the check on the shank of the Boolit.


    Dimensions of the boolit bands and check:

    Drive Bands – Base to Nose Unsized Boolit

    Gas Check on base .5127
    1st .5140 to .5148 (Out of Round)
    2nd .5145 to .5148 (Out of Round)
    3rd .5120 to .5141 (Out of Round)

    Drive Bands - Base to Nose – Sized in .514 Sizer Die from Buffalo Arms

    Gas Check on base .5135
    1st .5137 (Round)
    2nd .5137 (Round)
    3rd .5137 (Round)



    Notes:

    1. A slight “Nick” is seen on the Gas Check for the 3rd from the left Boolit. This occurs at times even with care when cutting checks using the Free Checks style check makers. This one was so slight I did not reject it given the mass of the Boolit.

    2. The Ring at the top of the three sized boolits is caused by the opening on the Lyman 4500 Sizer Ram that normally holds the Nose Punch. The NOE 513-850G-FN boolits are too tall to fit in the Lyman 4500 sizer unless you leave a nose punch out.

    a. To size a 850G-FN boolit, insert the nose into the hole where the Top/Nose Punch goes, rotate the boolit verticle, then sit the boolit base on the Sizing die. To avoid the Nose ring seen in the pic for this post, carefully place a penny over the flat portion of the boolit nose and then carefully lower the ram to avoid pinching your finger tip, then press down to size.

    b. The lube grooves take a LOT of lube. I press down the first time, slightly tighten the lube tension, raise and rotate about 30 to 45 degrees and size a 2nd time, lift and rotate another 30 to 45 degrees – tighten lube tension wrench and size a 3nd time, and then lift the ram and remove the boolit.

    3. I use a .513 or .514 Lubrisizer die I got form from Buffalo Arms (http://www.buffaloarms.com/) Took three four months to get these dies, so place an order as early as possible if needed as they take a while waiting in Que for production. You might also approach several of the vendors on this site to see if they will make up the same Lubrisizer dies.

    4. The silver colored Gas Checks in the Picture are made from .020 Aluminum Strip I ordered through Yonky on this site (see: http://www.coilandfoil.com/) . Soft aluminum rolled strip that is easy to work with in making checks. As you can see the check measures .5137 for me when seated on the NOE 513-850G-FN boolit base and sized in a .514 sizer.

    5. The Bronze and purple checks are made from an Aluminum “Hair Spry” can my wife used and I rescued from the trash. I have also done the same with some “Copper Tone” aluminum spray cans we bought at Sam's Club two years ago. Both of these measured about 0.021 thick. Cutting up the cans can be cumbersome, and you really need to wear gloves doing so. They do make some nice checks when you finally get some strips cut.


    6. I use a Free Checks III style Check Maker for the NOE 513-850G-FN boolit that was custom made by Charly Darnall (http://www.freechex.net/). This is not a Check Maker he normally carries.
    Last edited by MUSTANG; 01-07-2014 at 06:31 PM.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy

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    Mustang
    That is a big boolit and you will be going thru some lead shooting those. A pound of lead will yield just a little over 8 boolits. What gun will you be shooting those monsters in? I doubt there is any load data out there for a 50BMG shooting cast, what will be your start on load development? I would like to see a picture of that cannon. I will be following this thread to see how it turns out. Keep us informed.

    wcp

  3. #3
    Moderator Emeritus JeffinNZ's Avatar
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    Re the gas checks, I have used the hair spray bottle material without success. You may find it to be way too soft as I did.

    The 'nick' in the check is nothing worry about and trust me, without it you device would be a pig to use.
    Thermal underwear style guru.
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  4. #4
    Boolit Master



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    My Solution for a 50BMG Neck Expanding Die

    A standard 50BMG Die set and it's expander ball is tailored for a jacketed projectile. Using the standard neck expander when Loading for the NOE 513-850G-FN Cast Boolit will result in shaved lead, dramatically impacting accuracy. When I originally ordered the mold, I knew this would be a problem so I checked my Lee Neck Expanding Die, and validated it would not work as it was too small. I thought that a 50-90 Lyman M-Die might work, but that did not pan out due to the length of the 50BMG case. Another solution would be required. After months of contemplation and perusing hardware stores for potential tools, I found the solution in my tool box.

    I discovered that a Husky 8mm socket had the correct profile to use in belling the mouth of the 50BMG.


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    The 50BMG Boolit above sized at .514 will not fit into the mouth of the case, note the gas check partially goes into the case, but is too large to fit. Seating the boolit as-is in this picture would result in shaved lead.

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    The 8mm socket is depicted slightly inserted into the case mouth in the above picture.

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    The 8mm socket was short enough that when it was placed into the neck of the 50BMG case, the two would slide under the ram of my 1 Ton Harbor Freight Arbor Press with just a small space left. I apply slight pressure to slightly bell the mouth, test with a 50BMG boolit to validate the fit, and if necessary reflair until it fits correctly. It does not take much pressure to flair the mouth, and one develops a feel for the process after a couple are completed.

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    The above picture shows an NOE 513-850G-FN Cast Boolit will fit into the flaired mouth easily up to the edge of the grease grove after the sizing process, reducing the chance that lead will be shaved when seating a boolit.
    Last edited by MUSTANG; 01-18-2014 at 11:00 PM.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy Faret's Avatar
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    I settled on 195 gr of 872 in my State Arms Rebel. I wonder how it would do powder coated?

  6. #6
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Faret View Post
    I settled on 195 gr of 872 in my State Arms Rebel. I wonder how it would do powder coated?
    Been wondering the same myself. I did a little experimenting with Powder Coating .224 Swaged Boolits (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...oup-Buy!/page2), and have derived a thesis:

    Powder Coating works as a good Lube Replacement, makes for a more interesting "Look" to a Boolit, reduces chance of dirt/particulate contamination carried by Boolits into the chamber; but does not improve accuracy beyond that which you get from adjusting alloys to improve accuracy at increased velocities. Powder Coating does not allow the use of soft alloys where they would fail in our current methodologies for casting and alloy selection.

    I'll have to wait until late April or May for additional testing so I can get to suitable areas for my AR-50 50BMG.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy Faret's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MUSTANG View Post
    I'll have to wait until late April or May for additional testing so I can get to suitable areas for my AR-50 50BMG.
    Yep me too.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master



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    Greetings
    I have totaly overlooked the metric sockets for case mouth belling. Thanks !
    Mike in Peru
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    Man talk about shooting ingots, 8 bullets to the pound of metal, can you say depleting your metal supply in a hurry. Nice boolits, look forward to hearing and seeing your results when the weather cooperates more.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master bbqncigars's Avatar
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    I'm going to load some to try when the weather gets better. This time I'll remember to bring my chrono with me. Lathesmith made me a really nice sizing die for my Star. It has four holes per groove, and gets the job done. A gator check gets put on before the boolit goes too far in the die. I made my own version of the expand iron (like the M die) for the boolits. Still planning on patching a few just to see what happens in the brake.
    Last edited by bbqncigars; 02-20-2014 at 12:29 AM. Reason: punctuation
    "Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." A. Brilliant

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

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    Hello,

    Gonna take things a wee OT. Would anyone be willing to send me a sample of these? ~40-ish, no more. I realize that's 5 pounds of lead, so I can trade heavy 45's, shopwork, or just plain cash!

    Thanks.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master



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    White Rabbit:

    PM Sent.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master



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    Had the opportunity to start back on 50BMG Boolit work this weekend. Progress so far:

    1. I cast up several dozen NOE 513 850's last week. (Lead Ingots disappear fast with this mold).

    2. I previously ordered an additional Lee Push trough sizer in .510 via Amazon. Polished it out from 0.5095 to 0.513; Lee must be case hardening these dies as it took 5 recharges on the cordless drill to cut the 3 thousandths + and polish (60 grit then 220 grit).

    3. I Set gas checks on 10 boolits using the new Lee 0.513 sizing die. Very slight polish on the driving bands of the NOE 513 boolits after sizing, they now measure 0.513. The gas check is made from .020 aluminum, cut with a custom made FreeChex Gas Check Maker. These will be run through a 0.514 sizer die in my Lyman sizer this week; the 0.514 sizer die is custom made from Buffalo Arms Co.

    4. I also made up 10 "Powder Coated" NOE 513's using Harbor Freight - Red Powder Coat paint. Applied the PC Paint using the Dry Tumble method. Gas checks were applied before powder coating and cooking the boolits at 400 degrees. I will try these, but am somewhat skeptical as I did not have much luck with Powder Coated Boolits in the .223; but "we will see".

    5. I still have to prep 20 or 30 cases before loading.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    you are the man, Mustang. By the way:



    They shoot like a dream and .96" nose to crimp means they clear my internal magazine by .04" when loaded to the crimp groove. It is the perfect boolit. And Al is rerunning the mold in the next couple weeks, so I'll be able to buy it.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master



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    Should you need more before your able to get your own mold, drop me a PM. I cast many pounds of these last week.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master



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    I am feeling optimistic, so I decided to build a set of drop tables for the NOE 513-850 and my AR-50 in 50BMG. I was surprised when I computed the Ballistic Coefficient (G1), and it came out at 0.918. Ballistic coefficient was computed using the "Ballistic Coefficient Calculator" found at: http://gundata.org/ballistic-coefficient-calculator/ .

    My tables were designed for the Kalispell Montana area (Altitude, temperature, etc..). Zero for these tables is 300 Yards, and they range out to 2000Yards. Assumption for now is 1900 feet per second. See the attached pdf for my tables on this boolit and pertinent data.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master



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    Sizing the NOE 850Gr Boolit in a Lyman 4500 Lube/Sizer

    Today while sizing a batch of NOE 850gr 50BMG boolits it struck me that this could be an opportunity to share with others working with this Boolit how I am using my Lyman 4500 Lube Sizer to size and lube these beasts. I am using a .514 diameter size/lube die I purchased special order from Buffalo Arms www.buffaloarms.com.
    The first problem encountered is that the NOE 850 is too tall to be placed into the Lyman Lube sizer. For Lube/Sizing this boolit you do not use a nose punch.

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    This provides a greater clearance, but it is still too short for the NOE 850 gr. Boolit.

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    The nose has to be inserted diagonally UP into the ram cavity of the Lyman 4500, then the base set into the slight recess of the sizing die cavity. After inserting in this manner, you’ll have this condition. Before inserting, ensure that the gas check is firmly seated and flush on the base of the boolit.

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    In the next step I use a penny inserted above and in line with the ram in order to keep the ram from damaging the nose where the “Nose Punch Cavity” engages the NOE 850 boolit nose.

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    Next step is to pull the Lever down in order to size the boolit. Place a great amount of pressure on the bottom of the sizing stroke in order to ensure the gas check is fully seated, if you don’t the lube can flow under the gas check if it was not fully seated flush before you started, or it is pulled away during the up stroke by the sticky lube and vacuum formed in the sizing/seating process.

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    You will want to lift the bullet about 80% of the ram travel and then rotate the boolit turn and cycle fully down to the bottom again, at which time you will tighten the lube ratchet in order to ensure there is sufficient pressure to fill the lube grooves.

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    I do this turn one more time (three sizing strokes on each boolit) to ensure the grooves are filled. It takes a Lot of Lube to fill the grooves on this large boolit.
    Lift the ram all the way up, and slightly push the boolit over to break it loose from the lube cookie that will almost always form that causes it to be difficult to pick up. I have found that at times the gas check can be pulled off if not removed in this manner.

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    After removing the boolit from the Lyman 4500 lube sizer; I use a small flat screw driver to scrape any lube on the gas check as appears on the above picture. After physically cleaning most of the lube off, I then use a heavy duty paper towel or rag slightly dampened with a turpentine or similar solvent to clean the gas check area and if necessary the nose. Ensure these are left to dry before loading as I believe the solvents can affect the powder/primers. A completed boolit follows.

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    This particular boolit has a slight amount of lube in the “Crimp Grove” that I’ll remove with a paper towel. In my loads, I do not necessarily seat at the Lube groove; rather I load to where the nose is just short of the rifling, depending on neck tension to hold the boolit firmly.


    Update Comment: The next day winter came in with an outside temp of 2 degrees, first cold of the year. Inside temp for the work/reloading shed was about 50 degrees. This inside temp resulted in only a single incident of the boolit base forming a "Wax Cookie" in over 100 boolits sized and lubed. I attribute this to the .514 die having a large gap between the die wall and the punch, caused by the vendor polishing out a .512 die to .514. When the lube is thick (colder) it can not flow through the small gap; but when it is warm (room temp in the 70's) the lube is able to flow through the gap and form a wax cookie.
    Last edited by MUSTANG; 11-11-2014 at 01:34 PM.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master

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    fits in a lyman 45 just fine. Turned my own nose punch out of 3/8" brass stock. Basically, looks like a penny (of 3/8" diameter) with a quarter inch shank.

    Works like a champ.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master

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    If your AR50 is anything like mine, you will find it has a generous throat/leade. Max velocity on my loads were just over 2100 fps, and I would get a gas check come off every now and then. Trailboss (1600 fps)works well in my gun, along with H50bmg. Time to get it rebarreled though.

    Think I put 200 lbs of lead thru mine a couple of years ago, working on loads. Long summer.

  20. #20
    Boolit Bub
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    Any more info on this? That's a nice looking Large bullet!!!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check