When to clean the comp gun?

[sundog]

A couple weeks ago I won a match on X count. I lamented about flyers at 10 and 4 o'clock, pairs of them, that had never shown up before. Offline Felix and I had a conversation or three which he may or may not want to expound upon here. Short of it is that there's really not much wrong with not cleaning...., up to a point. This bbl has thousands of rounds throught it, 03A3 from CMP. All cast. All with Felix lube.

Well, first patch through didn't want to go through. At all. Hung up in the neck so I let it soak a little then with some force pulled it back out. Next on just barely went. Felix, your hunch was purdy good. Soooo, the gun is set up, as we speak, in the gun vice.

Now, here's the thing. This gun get no more than about 65 rounds per month now. It just kept getting better and better and better (as good as a 297/300 not long ago), and then the flyers. So, if anyone cares to cuss and discuss cleaning and accuracy, this is the place.

The other part of this now is that there is another match in two weeks. The bore will need fouled, and I'm fairly confident that POI is now changed - might not even like the boolit anymore.... Only way to tell will be to put it on paper. It may or may not come back to where it was. That's okay as long as the flyers go away.

Here's another thing. As I began the cleaning process that Felix and I discussed, the bore had tight (really tight in the throat) and lose spots. Now that alot of the fouling is removed it is becoming a little more consistent, as much as a war time (WWII) production bbl can be.

If Felix will pipe in you might be as suprised as me when he comments on how it came to this. btw, before he says anything, I'm not planning on changing a thing. sundog

[Bass Ackward]

Well, first patch through didn't want to go through. At all. Hung up in the neck so I let it soak a little then with some force pulled it back out. Next on just barely went. Felix, your hunch was purdy good. Soooo, the gun is set up, as we speak, in the gun vice.

Corky,

What you have discovered is why I clean more often than not. I have found that loads that shoot well either do so clean or dirty. Dirty, I can't control the conditions in between shoots. Clean, I can. Even if clean in this case is a dry patch after shooting.

Since you intend to continue your current procedure, I would try to find a mild sofener that could be put on a lose fitting patch and just pushed up into the throat and removed after a certain period of time. Maybe Caster oil would do it since it is already part of your lube. You would want to keep the patch fairly dry so it doesn't run. All you want to do is keep it soft, not remove anything. Less foulers required to get back to where you want to be.

[felix]

Agree with BA, Corky. Don't clean to squeeky clean, but to just enough to keep that throat lube soft and for a consistent drag throughout the barrel. That throat lube is what is keeping down the blowby and that's why the gun shoots when "dirty". Perhaps, you can retest the accuracy with a "clean" barrel and a larger diameter boolit, say 0.0005. Make the lead have some excessive spring back after sizing, in other words. Little more antimony, say one half of one percent worth. ... felix

[felix]

Castor oil after being fired upon, like lanolin, will encourage microbes to enter and harden the lube as excretia. Better to use mineral oil, or some other petro derivitive, like Ed's red, which the microbes have much more trouble with. ... felix

[sundog]

Hardened bug poop, huh? sundog

[StarMetal]

Sundog,

Off subject alittle, but I worked at the flourenscent tube plant GE has in Ohio. When they glue those aluminum caps on the ends of the lamp we asked about the funny dark green glue they used. They said it was made from fly poop! Well that is they ground the whole fly up. Dang stuff works though.

I have rifles that seem to shoot a long time with cast, but out of habit I clean them. Now 22 rimfires are a case where most of us don't clean them often. There's no doubt after so many rounds the bore gets conditioned.

Joe

[felix]

So does the throat, Joe. Trouble starts when the gunk is so hard that it can alter the diameter of a boolit, even so slightly in a BR gun. ... felix

[carpetman]

Starmetal ---This funny dark glue on the end of a fluorescent tube,did you have to lick it like an envelope to get it to stick?

[felix]

Not only that, gunpowder leaves some nitrogen, a principal fertilizer, i.e., a nutrient for animals (microbes). Black powder is even worse, leaving some potassium too. ... felix

[sundog]

Yea, Joe, I think you hit the nail right on the head. The problem, as I see it, is being able to maintain a 'certain condition'. Cleaned, then fouled, and then fouled just right, but not too much. And then, when it gets too much, reducing it just (and only) enough to restore accuracy. And in this particular case, it appears to be just the throat (Felix made a good call). That stuff sure was HARD. But, like I said earlier, gonna need to foul the bore to get her cookin' again, I'm sure. In a practical sense all this means little or nothing. Shoot, go home, clean, and store. Take it out next time, shoot, go home, clean, and store. But when you set up for a match, you just don't have the luxury of screwing around getting it going. It has to perform on demand. This gun, this ammo, has CONSISTENTLY hit the SAME POI (and group size) over many months with little or no sight adjustment. Stick a round in, pull the trigger, and it's in the group. No cleaning other than the bolt and exterior wipe down. Until now. Soooo, in a couple weeks we'll se how it does at the next match. Prolly shoot it a little before had to help get it going again and just be sure it's still 'in there'. sundog

[StarMetal]

Kinda like conditioning an iron skillet huh sundog?

Joe

[sundog]

Joe, exactly! sundog

[StarMetal]

Ray,

Thank God no!!! In fact it took quite some temperature to melt the crap.

Joe

[sundog]

Okay. Initial results. I had 13 match rounds left over from 2 months ago and 12 match rounds left over from last month. Set up two targets at 50 yards and started shootin'. It was hot, damn near a hunert degrees, and NO wind. Wx affected by Katrina. Last night was a mild north breeze draggin' in some dryer air that the forecasters here are sayin' will be the same tonight. But right now it's hot. Tshirt sopping wet hot. Sister's house in south Florida got flooded from Katrina, heavy roof damage, trees uprooted.... Purdy good mess. I was down there before she left to pick alot of my Dad's tools, a gun, and other stuff. ALL that would have been ruined. I feel bad for her, 'cause she's got lots of nice things form several places overseas. She's kinda gone right now (a few of the fellers know) so it makes it doubly difficult for her. Anyway, I enjoyed shootin', 'cause I could come in and cool off between strings (settin' here having a cool'un right now). Results? First 13-round group was 1.444 and 0.940 if'n y'all take away the one shot I pulled low (ricketty bench, doncha know). The other was 12 rounds for 1.014. What's neat is if you overlay the targets all but the one I pulled are ALL in the same group. Now, we'll see what happens at the match a week from Saturday.... sundog

[David R]

Sounds like the cleaning didn't hurt it at all.