Is your nose too big ? ?

[Ben]

Kind of a unique title , right ? I thought that one might get your attention.

I have thirty +, .30 cal. molds right now. Since my molds are made by Cramer, SAECO, RCBS, Lee, Lyman/ IDEAL, the variations in drive band diameters , gas shank diameters, and nose diameters are " all over the place ".

Nose diameters of the molds described above vary from .299" - .304".

I have .30 cal. rifles that if you try and chamber a round with a .304" dia. nose, you won't ever get the bolt closed. In a hunting situation or self defense situation , you could stick the bullet ( with an over sized nose ) in the bore, when you withdraw the case, powder will fill the chamber and magazine box....a real mess. Basically rendering the weapon un-usable until you can get a cleaning rod to tap out the stuck bullet and get everything cleaned up. If you've loaded very many cast rifle bullets, you have probably already experienced what I describe above. If the nose is sized properly and you have the correct OAL for your loaded rounds, this will never happen. The beauty of a properly sized nose on your rifle bullets is IMPT ! for proper chambering and also an aid in the accuracy dept.

My .30 cal. rifles each like a different bullet dia. on the drive bands. However some of them have tight bores and won't tolerate a " fat nosed bullet." If the nose of the bullet gets much over .3015" there will be problems in chambering the round. I have a Springfield 1903 Sporter in .308 Win. that isn't very tolerant of cast bullets with a nose of over .301". I hope you are able to see why I ( and possibly you ) need the ability to control nose diameters.

I've always read about sizing the nose of a cast bullet, but considering the fact that RCBS, Lyman, etc . didn't sell the nose sizing dies , I just never got serious about the concept.

3 years ago, I had Buckshot make a .302 nose sizing die for me. It was solid steel that fit the Lyman 450 with the threaded ring that holds the sizer die in place. It has been useful, however I found that I also needed a .300" and a .301" diameter nose sizing die.

About 3 weeks ago, I contacted Rick ( Buckshot ) about making me a cast bullet nose sizing die that would take the Redding bushings . I received the die a few days ago. It works flawlessly. This die takes the Redding sizing bushings that are available from MidWay, Graf's , etc.

Here are the bushings, I chose to buy the heat treated, hardened steel bushings since they are about 60% of the price of the Nitride ones. A thin film of lube on about every 3rd bullet going into the sizer ring is all this is needed with these steel bushings. They are polished " mirror smooth".



Here is Buckshot's bushing die with a Redding .301 sizer ring in place and ready to be installed in my Lyman 450 :

[cbrick]

Great set up ben. Your correct about both the chambering and in accuracy if a bore rider doesn't ride the bore. I like the nose to be lightly engraved by the rifling evenly all the way around, not always easy to accomplish with every bore's rifling being somewhat different.

I had a 15" XP in 6.5mm BR with a Shilen match barrel & chamber that I bought the SAECO 4 cav 140 gr SPGC for. The throat in the Shilen was too short to use this boolit unless seated very deep, the front driving band wouldn't allow it to chamber without pushing the boolit deeper by closing the bolt & then pulling the boolit when the bolt was opened. I used the SAECO lubrisizer with a die a few thousands smaller than the previously sized boolit, set the stop so the nose could only enter the die to the correct depth (about 20 thousands if I remember correctly) & on the up stroke would push the boolit back out. It put a taper on the front driving band & worked perfectly. A real pita but it did work.

My final solution was the RCBS 6.5 140 gr, a similar boolit but with the front driving band shorter eliminating that step.

The next time I run into the nose of a bore rider nose too large I'll steal your idea. Thanks both for the tip & a great write up.

Rick

[high standard 40]

I use the Buckshot system to nose size my bullets. It has always worked perfectly for me as well.

[btroj]

I like that idea. The bushings aren't horribly expensive and are easily available.
What happens of you make a Loverin style bullet with a 2 diameter body? Could let the bullet be seated longer than it might normally do.

This also could solve some issues with short throated rifles like a Marlin, lets the bullet enter the rifling a bit better if the nose is too big.

Well done Ben. Again, the photos make all the different in the world.

[Ben]

Thanks Fellows, I have no claims or patents on anything ( nor do I want any).

Use this nose sizing system and enjoy it !

Buckshot ( Rick ) is a top shelf machinist, he has saved my bacon on many occasions ! I can't say enough about his good work.

Good Shooting to all of you,

Ben

[Von Gruff]

I simply had an unused die opened up to except the Wilson and Redding bushes and shortened just enough to take a washer over the top to hold the bush in on the upstroke. It has made a big difference to my cast shooting in the couple of rifles that need the nose sizing. This 7mm bullet only needs the first part of the nose resized down to .275

[Ben]

Von Gruff,

Great idea.
More than 1 way to skin a cat................

[TCFAN]

I have used this same setup from Buckshot for more than a year now.I use the same bushings that you are using and it helps a lot.I also have two Lyman H&I dies that are .301 and .299 that I also use.Being able to size the nose solves a lot of problems..........Terry

[btroj]

Ben, how are you controlling depth? Are you just letting the front band stop the sizing or do you set a depth stop of some sort?

[Ben]

btroj

The same threaded cylinder and nut under neat the sizing die that controls the depth of your bullet being sized on the Lyman 450 is also the same device that will control the depth that the nose of your bullet will enter the N/S ing die. ( see red arrow below )

[btroj]

Ok, that is what I thought but assumptions are a good way to get into trouble.

That darn Buckshot is a heck of an innovative guy.

[Echo]

Another Big Wow. I LOVE this Forum!

[Beagle333]

I use the Buckshot system as well. It is great!
Right = a .3015 nose boolit.(before)
Left = a .300 nose boolit. (after)

[Piedmont]

Didn't the mold maker Don Eagan make a .30 taper die that fit a Lyman or RCBS lubrisizer and was fed nose first? It would be nice if someone could make those again. That would be another way to tackle the oversize nose problem.

[44man]

Excellent work from Buckshot. Super smart ideas from all of you.

[detox]

This is a very good idea Ben. I will have to try this without the die body by flipping bullet.

We you can also control bore ride section diameter with alloy type. For instance I can make two different size bullets from my Lyman 314299 mould casting with two different alloys:

Linotype 314299 bullet measures. .3030 at bore ride section and .3121 at bands
(less shrinkage)

Lyman #2 314299 bullet measures: .3015 at bore ride section and .311 at bands
(more shrinkage)

My softer Lyman #2 alloy shrinks more than Linotype when cooled. Especially when casting at hotter mould temperature.

[petroid]

I've heard about nose sizing and am wondering if it can be applied without a lubrisizer. For instance, since I have been PC'ing the noses are fatter and not sized by a push thru sizer. As well, my Lee C312-155-2R casts a nose that is .302 and can't be seated out very far in my 300BLK. Is there a way to apply this concept to a push thru sizer? I suppose the boolit will have to be tapped out somehow since there is no ram on the other end. Maybe a custom sizing die would be needed...

[rbuck351]

Wish I had a mold that cast too big of nose instead of too small.

[fryboy]

too small still fits ...too fat wont

( geez now i need more toys lolz )

[rbuck351]

Too big I can fix, too small won't shoot straight and it's really hard to make it bigger. I have a mini lathe and can make big things smaller real easy. Making small things bigger is tough. Maybe I could knurl them. Hmmmmm. Back to the loading room for more experiments.