RotoMetals2Load DataWidenersLee Precision
Reloading EverythingInline FabricationRepackboxMidSouth Shooters Supply
Titan Reloading
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 36

Thread: Compare and contrast, please,

  1. #1
    Boolit Master armoredman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Casa Grande, AZ
    Posts
    1,917

    Compare and contrast, please,

    Which is easier, more effective, cost/time efficient, (relatively, of course), and gives a better HP boolit. A converted mold by Buckshot, or a Forster Universal Hollow-Pointer?
    Thank you for any replies.

  2. #2
    Banned 45 2.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Little Egypt, Part of the political fifedom of Chicago
    Posts
    7,099
    Quote Originally Posted by armoredman View Post
    Which is easier, more effective, cost/time efficient, (relatively, of course), and gives a better HP boolit. A converted mold by Buckshot, or a Forster Universal Hollow-Pointer?
    Thank you for any replies.
    IMHO, I have found that if you actually cast them in, they are more accurate. I've had drilled hollow points (Forster hollow pointer) go way off point of aim on a benchrest with them. Cast ones haven't did that so far.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master on Heavens Range
    felix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    fort smith ar
    Posts
    9,679
    Yes, Bob, that would be correct. BA has talked about that, remember? The scratching of the boolit by the lands specifically aids in the destruction of the boolit via energy supplied by the rotational forces. The analysis would blur into the same thought for the roughed out hollow point. ... felix
    felix

  4. #4
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Perryville, Ky,USA
    Posts
    4,513
    Casting's much easier. You can sit down in a morning and run off 4-500. With the Forster HP jig, you'll mess up occasionally and then you're stuck with a "plinker". If you screw up a cast HP, it can go back into the pot.

    The cast HPs as Felix pointed out seem to be more accurate.

    I'd go and have gone with cast although I own two or three of the Forster jigs./beagle
    diplomacy is being able to say, "nice doggie" until you find a big rock.....

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master leftiye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Sagebrush flats, Utah
    Posts
    5,543
    Barring mold cavities that aren't symetrical (reads not all around the same axis at all parts of the boolit) - which same cannot be barred (oh, well). Then if you had a straight boolit, and a collet closer with the right size collet, in a lathe that has the tailstock correctly centered (use the right cutter and this won't matter), then drilled hollow points should be nearly perfect if a stiff, short drill is used. So the weak link is the mass manufactured mold cavity.

    Not sure a Forster trimmer qualifies- its chief deficit however is the lack of a collet that holds the boolit. Collet holding a case has no guarantee that the boolit centerline is on the lathe centerline, so you drill holes off center.
    We need somebody/something to keep the government (cops and bureaucrats too) HONEST (by non government oversight).

    Every "freedom" (latitude) given to government is a loophole in the rule of law. Every loophole in the rule of law is another hole in our freedom. When they even obey the law that is. Too often government seems to feel itself above the law.

    We forgot to take out the trash in 2012, but 2016 was a charm! YESSS!

  6. #6
    Boolit Master armoredman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Casa Grande, AZ
    Posts
    1,917
    And the goofy thing is I found a Forster Trimmer at the pawn shop for $5, so, I guess I can try the Hollow Pointer. Even if it doesn't work quite right, it will still be fun to experiment with while I save up for a good hollow point mold. Thank you all very much.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master


    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aberdeen, South Dakota
    Posts
    7,136
    I own the Forester hollow pointer, and played with it a lot last year. I even used that data to have one of my molds converted by Erik Ohlen to a hollow point. Yes, you mess some bullets up, which is frustrating. I doubt that every hole is perfectly centered with the Forester tool, I'd bet none of them are. Still, imbalances in the nose make next to no difference unless they are extreme. This is a direct contrast, in that a small nick on the base will send a bullet way off target.

    I only used it on handguns, and at 50 yards my best load shot 3" 6 shot group average with the Forester tool, and the same bullet shoots 3" cast as a hollow point. Both are phenomenal. A rifle could be a different story.

    I really enjoyed being able to alter the depth of hollow point with the Forester tool. It is amazing how easy it is to control how much they expand.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master armoredman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Casa Grande, AZ
    Posts
    1,917
    How deep did you go on 9mm, if you don't mind me asking? I am using the Lee 124gr TL boolit.

    Attachment 244018

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master


    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aberdeen, South Dakota
    Posts
    7,136
    Holey cow, I just realized you asked the original question 12 years ago!

    I never tried 9mm. I spent most of my time on a 148 grain as a solid bullet for 327 federal. I quickly found a lead/tin alloy to be ideal, and stuck with 20-1. I found the best performance came with a .150" deep hollow point. That put the bullet at about 144 grains, and I was shooting them 1220 fps.

    I have heard guys have good results with wheel weights if you dilute enough with lead, something like 50/50 COWW and lead. For hollow point depth, I would start right at .200" deep on that bullet.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master armoredman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Casa Grande, AZ
    Posts
    1,917
    Holy cow, it HAS been a while. Well, it took me this long to fall in to a Forster Trimmer for dirt cheap.
    On the other hand - ow. The amount of energy it took me to hollow point just ten rounds to .166" deep was ridiculous. I think this will be relegated to emergency use only. NOW to save up for the hollow point mold instead, probably another 12 year wait...wonder if I'll still be alive?

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master


    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aberdeen, South Dakota
    Posts
    7,136
    What was giving you troubles? It can be a bit of a pain, and you do get some rejects, but for the most part the forester hollow point tool should be able to drill a bullet in about 5-10 seconds. Is there any chance it was a counter clockwise bit?

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    2,079
    I have a lot of hp molds, single pin and cramer style. I also have 2 forster trimmers. Both have the factory hp setups along with me using custom made hp bits and 60* center drills to make hps.

    The forster tool makes for an excellent test bed for bullets anyone considers hp'ing. Simply test away with the forster tool and then have the mold hp'd or look for a similar design that the mold is already setup to cast hp's.

    Awhile back I wanted to test lead hb hp swc's in a snub nosed 44spl. The old ww fbi 38spl load used such a bullet.
    [IMG][/IMG]
    I have a mold that casts hbswc's for the 44cal's (429422). I ued a forster hp tool with a 60* center drill to make hp's in that cast hbswc.
    [IMG][/IMG]
    Interestingly enough both ends of that bullet expanded, recovered from wetpack.
    [IMG][/IMG]
    That recovered bullet pictured above was from a 1000fps+ load.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Myself I like to use hp molds but the forster hp tool can be extremely useful.

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Woodbury, Tn
    Posts
    242
    I am not interested in the HP aspect, but I do have a Charter Bulldog with the 2.5 inch barrel. Generally, I shoot 240 gr LSWC with 14.5 grs 2400 for my best accuracy. How accurate are your 200gr boolits with the 16 hrs of 2400?
    luvtn
    Last edited by luvtn; 07-02-2019 at 12:16 PM.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    kalif.
    Posts
    7,200
    I think by far a mold designed to cast HP will give more uniform results. Any drilling op still has a user error built into it.
    EVERY GOOD SHOOTER NEEDS TO BE A HANDLOADER.
    NRA Cert. Inst. Met. Reloading & Basic Pistol

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master


    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aberdeen, South Dakota
    Posts
    7,136
    Quote Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
    I think by far a mold designed to cast HP will give more uniform results. Any drilling op still has a user error built into it.
    The only error in the Forester tool is that it indexes off of the case head. This causes the hole to start every so slightly off center. User error is taken out of the equation. In actual practice, accuracy is not effected at all.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master armoredman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Casa Grande, AZ
    Posts
    1,917
    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    What was giving you troubles? It can be a bit of a pain, and you do get some rejects, but for the most part the forester hollow point tool should be able to drill a bullet in about 5-10 seconds. Is there any chance it was a counter clockwise bit?
    The bit was correct, it's most likely the fact that the lead is 92/6/2 from Seafab, Lyman #2 style, IIRC, towel dropped. Also, they are powder coated, so I could see the initial bite being a wee bit tougher...but that bit just did not want to bite, and when it did, the excavated lead would jam up in the bit. I wish 5-10 seconds, was more like 5 minutes per, cranking hard. I have some other non PC bullets to try, specifically some MBC IDA #6 125 grainers, but they are BH18, might be more of the same. Not experienced enough as a caster to know exactly what to add to the metal to thin it enough for a good bite - ideas? I am also smart enough to think maybe I was doing something wrong. I followed all the directions I could find on line.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master 15meter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    2,507
    Never tried to drill hollow points, nor powder coated lead but every time I have drilled lead, the drill bit cut almost instantly, to the point of almost self feeding.

    I'd look at trying a new/different drill bit. I've never used lube when drilling lead, but that might help if it's the powder coating that is sticky. Lead usually comes up following the drill bit grooves in long continuous chips.

    May even just take that bit and try to drill an ingot and see how it works.

    And I like archaeological dig threads

  18. #18
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    1 mile from chickahominy river ( swamp) central va
    Posts
    2,162
    I have had good luck drilling them on a drill press but for ease i would have to say casting them is easier.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master armoredman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Casa Grande, AZ
    Posts
    1,917
    I sent to Forster;"I purchased the 1/8" Universal Hollow Pointer from MidwayUSA.com and find the drill bit is VERY hard to use, takes several minutes to drill into a cast 9mm bullet, metal is 92/6/2 from Seafab and powder coated. I was told that might be a bad drill bit and I was recommended to contact your company abut that. Can you assist or tell me what I might be doing wrong? The drill bit bites very poorly and has to be pushed with much strength to grind into the bullet. I hollow pointed just 10 rounds and am not looking forward to ever doing that again, unless there is a solution/something I am doing wrong that I can correct? "

    Forster said, "Thanks for contacting us about this very unusual issue, what i believe would be best is is the bit was returned to us for our review, if possible with a couple samples of the bullets you are using. This can be sent to;" and the address.

    I wanted to know if I was doing something wrong. It will cost almost as much to send it back than to just buy a new one. Might just send back the whole thing and say keep it, I'll save up for a mold from a different manufacturer. BTW, I had to push so hard to get the bit to bite that the crank and the knob were actually shaving aluminum off each other, had to over lube them.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master armoredman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Casa Grande, AZ
    Posts
    1,917
    Quote Originally Posted by 15meter View Post
    Never tried to drill hollow points, nor powder coated lead but every time I have drilled lead, the drill bit cut almost instantly, to the point of almost self feeding.

    I'd look at trying a new/different drill bit. I've never used lube when drilling lead, but that might help if it's the powder coating that is sticky. Lead usually comes up following the drill bit grooves in long continuous chips.

    May even just take that bit and try to drill an ingot and see how it works.

    And I like archaeological dig threads
    Hmm, that's a good idea, so here goes. Chunk is certified bullet metal from Seafab Metals Co, 92/6/2. Dimple shown is one full MINUTE of drilling, pushing hard. Bad picture of one of ten HP 9mm rounds, after 5 minutes of grinding.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check