Black MZ, it's all in the technique and the load

[rsrocket1]

There was a thread asking about personal experience and not just heresay with Alliant Black MZ, so I took it up as a challenge. My first observations were in that thread with a follow up here.

I was using Blackhorn 209 and was very happy with the accuracy and clean shooting, but not happy with the price of over $0.40/shot.


So I bought a pound of Black MZ (about $0.22/shot) and learned several things about it as written in the above threads.

Last week, I had a "miserable accuracy" time with the powder so I tried switching back and forth between Black MZ and BH209 thinking that maybe something else was changing (scope, scope mount, shooting off of a gun vise, barrel warming up too much). Nope, the BH209 groups (yellow) were consistently better than the BlackMZ groups (red):


Today, after chronographing some 550g paper patched bullets (big kick), I again tried to nail down the proper load and technique. I knew 80g (volume) BH209 gave me pretty good accuracy and that increasing or decreasing the load opened up the group so that load was close to the sweet spot for this bullet in this gun. Instead of meticulously weighing each charge, I simply poured a heaping 80g load into the powder measure, scraped off the top of the heap without shaking the measure and allowing the powder to settle (it will change weights by 10% if you tap it enough). I then poured the powder down a dry patch swabbed barrel then firmly seated the bullet/sabot with my 7/16" aluminum range rod. Voila:


I moved the crosshairs over between the left group and the right group.

This isn't quite MOA accuracy yet, but it's not a bad start for a $180 gun, a $20 Simmons 3-9x32 rimfire scope, a cast 1911 45ACP pistol bullet and a powder that "meters like kitty litter".

Hope that helps someone.

[GunSlingerNM]

Rocket, thanks for the info. I am also still playing around with the Black-MZ in my revolvers lately in my ROA. I have a load that is working well for me. I measure 30gr powder tap it and top it off then use a lubed wad and compress it followed by 457 round ball. Cap with #11 percussion cap.
This has proved to be an accurate load out to 25 yards. I don't have a chrono so cant give velocity but this load seems to work so far.

[mainiac]

Rocket, thanks for the info. I am also still playing around with the Black-MZ in my revolvers lately in my ROA. I have a load that is working well for me. I measure 30gr powder tap it and top it off then use a lubed wad and compress it followed by 457 round ball. Cap with #11 percussion cap.
This has proved to be an accurate load out to 25 yards. I don't have a chrono so cant give velocity but this load seems to work so far.

This is intresting to me,as 30 grs is the most accurate load in both my roa,s.But i use ff real black.
Maybe there something in that 30 gr volume load??

[GunSlingerNM]

mainiac, You are correct on 30 being the magic number in ROA at least most of the time. When shooting Olde E I also use 30 just don't compress as much. 777 I usually use 28 light compression, Pyrodex 35 seems to work best for me. I don't remember what I use with Swss and notes are in range box. I am willing to try any powder at least once.

[mainiac]

mainiac, You are correct on 30 being the magic number in ROA at least most of the time. When shooting Olde E I also use 30 just don't compress as much. 777 I usually use 28 light compression, Pyrodex 35 seems to work best for me. I don't remember what I use with Swss and notes are in range box. I am willing to try any powder at least once.

All right,,how about this...Have you found ff to clearly out shoot fff as far as accuracy?Both my roa shoot alot tighter with ff goex....instead of fff,,way less recoil and noise as well.....

[GunSlingerNM]

I am not sure. Black-MZ is the only ffg that I have shot in my revolvers. No real reason why probably cuz I have always had enough fffg on hand. Next trip out to shoot I will bring ffg with me and give it a try.

[Mr Ed]

GunSlingerNM,, I am now more confused... everything i read says no lube in bore nor on wads.... but i wondered if i use my only wads i have..lubed felt... and load and then immediately shoot my Pietta Brass frame 44 cal revolver. So what happened with you using the Lubed Wads? Also..any idea what a good amount of MZ to use on my brass framed 44... that wint hurt or stretch the Pin or frame...? thanks much and i am soo glad to,see you tried lubed wad..its all i have.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

don't pay any attention to that no lube **** American Pioneer came out with. You need lube to keep leading down, you need lube to keep chain fires from happening, you need lube in order to shoot a patched round ball. How they came up with that don't use **** story is beyond me. If they had anyone you could call and talk to, I guarantee they wouldn't be able to explain it.

[Mr Ed]

thank you so darn much for answering me AND thank you for the advice.... that is what I was thinking as well but, .last time i owned a BP revolver was 1978 so i did not know. thanks

[Newtire]

Just heard they stopped making it? Too bad as it works quite well in shotgun loads. Had more closely matching 2F black velocity with heavier projectiles. Velocity was lower in .40 round ball rifle in comparison to .58 Minie loads of 60 gr. equivalent. Black powder was Graf's house brand (scuttlebutt has it that this brand of black is made by Wano). The Black MZ we've been using was $9.99 a pound at Sportsman's Warehouse. Graf's has it for $19.99 and a place here in Boise has it on display for around $30.00.

Won't have it around to complain about anymore looks like? I like the stuff. It loads easy shot to shot and no crud ring, lights off easy, shoots in everything from my Crockett and Cherokee .32's all the way up to 10 gauge Pedersoli. Tried leaving an old CVA dirty after shooting, without cleaning for a week ( wouldn't recommend this but just saying that I did it ) and loads just like before -no rust anywhere inside or out. Hasn't deteriorated, using it out of the same jug for 3 years now. Seems accurate for any minute of any critter you would be after up to 100 yards in the .45 on up range. In the .32's is great at 25 yards so far. Anything farther, I couldn't tell you. Shot it in flintlock with a 10 grain starter of 2f black but will have to try it by it's lonesome when I have my C02 discharger with me.

Bad news is that the smoke is bad to breathe if you accidentally get caught in it's drifting cloud. Someone mentioned that the smoke was some pretty bad stuff. I suppose my epitaph will read something like " That last big whiff of Black MZ put him in this place now where he be". Turning into a real rant here so going to sign off. Happy Thanksgiving every one!

[shdwlkr]

I talked to the company(alliant) and it is the company that makes blackMZ that has closed their doors. No plans to find someone new to make it either. Many have said it was really PPG with a new name. Not sure but like you it was good stuff if you bought it at the right place.

[TheOutlawKid]

So glad i just ordered 6 pounds a few weeks back. Hate when a great product goes off the market. Hopefully a different company will start making it. This news is giving me the itch to buy 10 more pounds or so just to stock up.

[Newtire]

They say that the no lube thing is because of the soft deposit that you find in the bore after you shoot it provides you with lube. I wouldn't recommend not lubing in a cap & ball revolter. The chain fire thing is enough to make me resist doing that. I'm going to try it out in the .32-20 and maybe just a few Martini-Henry 577/450's in hopes it does the trick. I might as well load up some .45 Long Colt and .454 Casull as long as I'm loading those up for Winnemucca anyway. Getting close to that time of year again!

[arcticap]

When I tried out applying Bore Butter over the balls using APP 3F in a revolver, it created a black sludge-like grease in the bore which is messier than not using any lube at all.

But after a lot of shots without using any lube, only a little bit of powder fouling may stick inside the bore which can be easily swabbed out.
Since I carry mineral oil to lube the 1958's cylinder pin with anyway, that's what I use to swab the revolver's bore with.
Perhaps after 30 - 40 shots to help maintain accuracy, but it's not critical.
I didn't notice any lead in the bore using factory balls.