2 cycle synthetic and beeswax

[Bullshop Junior]

Most people are pretty sure it was just whatever 2 cycle was out in the shed. Some have compared the amsoil saber and it looked felt and smelled the same. When applied to a hot plate it smoked at the same temp. As according to miha any old synthetic will do the same thing.

We may not know the exact 2 cycle but they are manufactured to have similar properties in the engine so will perform similar in our application.
Bit if you want it green then the oil listed above with yellow beeswax will do it.

You're his son? He made a great discovery, managed to cut all the excess ingredients out. It's a great lube, certainly made my starting easier and cheaper without having to buy a ton of ingredients.

Yes I am his son. Although, i cant even come close to making the impact on the boolit casting world he made.

Amsoil Sabor is wrong. It is Amsoil HP injector.

[geargnasher]

And here I thought you didn't pay attention.

My lube ingredient shelf in the garage represents the entire Amsoil line of syn two-stroke oils (local dealer hooked me up years ago), and I've found all of them work fine. One of the green ones is closer to what's in my bottles of Bullplate than the other, according to lab analysis. That's all I'm going to say about that.

As for what is legally allowed to be called a "synthetic", even Amsoil has screwed around with their base stocks over time. From what I gather now, all of their syn oils are based on pure, PAO base stocks which are Group IV, gen-you-ine, manufactured molecules.

Red Line, Motul, and Maxima two-stroke oils are based on POE, or polyolester base stocks which are totally different from the polyalphaolephins such as Mobil 1, Royal Purple, and Amsoil.

The severely hydrotreated Group III base oils with viscosity modifiers and pour point depressants can be marketed as "synthetics", but they have breakdown and sludge issues that the synthetics do not.

Gear

[MtGun44]

Didn't think many folks knew about hydrocracking. I met an engineer from Amoco years ago just
after they and Pennzoil put in the first hydrocracker in on the Gulf Coast. They were getting performance
from their lube oils nearly as good as real synthetics for a bunch less $$. Used to have a powerpoint
presentation he did on the process and the test results of their hydrocracked lube oils.

Apparently now it is legal to call hydrocracked dinosaur juice "synthetic", at least for car oil.

Bill

[Ben]

Gear :

OK.......fine, now explain what it is that I don't understand about what you just said .................

[MtGun44]

Who you talking about, Ben? Me or gear?

Bill

[Ben]

Bill,

I can always understand what you're saying.....

Gear, now that is another story.

[MtGun44]

I was commenting on his last sentence. He says 'hydrotreating' and I am sure this is what they used to refer to
as 'hydrocracking'.

Bill

[geargnasher]

A few have gotten an ejumication from our very own resident Cast Boolits Lubrication Engineer, Bruce381. He's been very helpful to those of us on the lube quest through his generosity of both information and many samples of various lab-grade components. When we wanted to isolate and test various "pure" synthetic and natural components, he was Johnny-on-the-spot with ingredients not available to the general consumer. That's how we learned so much about synthetics, additives, and grease thickeners. We've made all manner of greases from scratch using pure ingredients like Al Stearate, PAO 100, a variety of PAGS, bentone, various pure Li soap compounds, even silica. We've also played with a variety of friction modifiers and EP additives he was kind enough to provide.

Bruce is definitely one of the MVP's of the Extreme Lube Quest.

Gear

[nanuk]

I wish I could find the speedgree recipe. I never paid attentionas a kid, and I wanted to try making it replacing bullplate with synthetic 2 stroke oil. But my searching has been fruitless.

Bwahahahahaaaaaa....

<snort>

[montana_charlie]

I wish I could find the speedgree recipe. I never paid attentionas a kid, and I wanted to try making it replacing bullplate with synthetic 2 stroke oil. But my searching has been fruitless.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=speed%20green

[Bullshop Junior]

Thanks charlie. Thats what I was looking for. Thanks. I wanna try a few experiments with difforant types of oil, specifly synthetic tranny fluid since its easier to get then the amzoil 2stroke. I can get the amzoil tranny fluid at napa

[igolfat8]

I don't pretend to be an expert on lubes but I find this discussion fascinating. Years ago, I raced 2 stroke dirt bikes and was on a quest to find the best two stroke oil. I owned a Falex film strength test machine. Granted it was not a Shell 4 ball test but it provided a means to test a LOT of oils quickly on a shoe string budget and assign a metric to each oil instead of opinion. I have forgotten most of what I learned but do remember that Golden Spectro was one of the best "blends" of petroleum / synthetic oils and Klotz Techniplate was the best of the pure synthetics. Amzoil rated near the bottom.

[Bullshop Junior]

That is interesting...I can get the Klotz snowmachine oil here, but t is very expancive. About $14 per quart.

[btroj]

Gear :

OK.......fine, now explain what it is that I don't understand about what you just said .................

Ok Ben, I will try

A PAO and a POE are two different, chemically, types of synthetic lubricants. They are entirely man made. They have some very different chemical properties. I haven't messed with the PAO oils at all but have played with the POE oils. The Ester 100 AC oil I use as a sprue plate lube is a fully synthetic POE oil.

Hydro cracked oils are naturally occurring oils that have been altered chemically to improve their lubricating properties.

Biggest advantage to the synthetics is the fact they tend to be me chemically pure and very consistent year in and year out. Naturally occurring oils, like mineral oil, tend to vary from time to time or over time.

POE oils are chemically similar, in ways, to beeswax as beeswax contains lots of esters. His allows the POE oil to easily mix with beeswax. Some other oils may not mix as well with beeswax.

Ben, a year ago this was all Greek to me. I have learned way more than any man needs to know about lubrication. The quest taught me much about how different oils behave both as lubricants and more importantly how they play with other stuff.

I hope this sheds some light on what Gear said. I can't generally understand Gear, Run is another story. I still haven't found a Run/English decoder ring.....

[Ben]

Some of you guys are obviously educated way beyond my intelligence.

I didn't know a thing about any of the things your guys are discussing and managed to come up with the ingredients for Ben's Red.

Maybe I need to head to Las Vegas ?

Ben

[Bullshop Junior]

What does bens red consist of?

[Ben]

Bullshop Junior


BEN'S RED

50% beeswax ( Some choose to use 55% with good results )
30% Red & Tacky Lucas High Temp Grease
10% Johnson's Paste Wax
5% Dexron II or Dexron III Trans. Fluid
5% STP Oil Treatment

[Bullshop Junior]

and does it do fairly well under high pressure/speeds?

[Ben]

I don't shoot it beyond 2,000 fps and then with powders like IMR 4895 that is probably not breaking 30,000 psi.

Some on the forum here say they have shot 2,400 fps with zero problems, however I've never tried it ? ?

Of course many use it in revolver and auto pistol loads with good reviews.

Ben

[btroj]

Ben, I have the advantage of a BS in Chemistry so I understand the basic concepts. Gear has the advantage of being a mechanic who has lots of first hand experience with this stuff. He also has an insatiable need to know.

It isn't about intelligence or anything like that. I think what happened is you approached lube by taking existing known "good stuff" and finding a combination that works well. We tried to take a more scientific approach. Your work, and that of others, laid a strong foundation.