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Thread: High performance buckshot - revisited...

  1. #61
    Boolit Buddy
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    I loaded buck shot several years ago but the components are currently not available re: WAA12R wads. I have access to the WAA12F114 wads and several other types but not the 12R's anymore. Does anyone have access to a load for the following components?
    Win AA hulls
    0 Buck, 00 Buck, #4 Buck
    Win 209 primers (I may also have some CCI 209 primers
    Powders - HS6, 800X, 700X preferred but I also have a small quantity of SR4756 though this powder is also on the list of powders to be discontinued.
    I prefer not to have to use BP wads if possible as they're hard to find. I also do not want a heavy load as these would be used for driving deer and for safety would rather a lighter load if possible.
    Thank you kindly for all you help in advance, appreciated much. BB

  2. #62
    Boolit Master
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    Published data for buffered 8 pellet 00B:

    http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIR..._reloading.pdf

    AA12R Replacement wads are available:

    http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Cla...info/030CB12R/

    The Maximum Danger Range remains essentially the same for a given buckshot pellet size regardless of whether it is fired from a "heavy" or "light" load.
    Last edited by RMc; 08-28-2018 at 01:38 AM.

  3. #63
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thank you for the help. BB

  4. #64
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    That was Joey Sanders no u, I ort to know I is he!

  5. #65
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    "AA12R Replacement wads are available"

    I try and stay away from Claybusters and prefer Downrange wads. This is a good choice:

    http://www.downrangemfg.com/index.ph...ory&Itemid=170
    Last edited by jmort; 10-09-2014 at 12:32 AM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmortimer View Post
    "AA12R Replacement wads are available"

    [COLOR=#333333]I try and stay away from Claybusters and prefer Downrange wads. This is a good choice:

    http://www.downrangemfg.com/index.ph...ory&Itemid=170
    I understand - unfortunately Downrange does not make a AA12R substitute.

  7. #67
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    http://www.downrangemfg.com/index.ph...=39&Itemid=170

    Is this not the AA12R substitute?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmortimer View Post
    Unfortunately, no.

    I can see how the DRA12 wad illustrated could be mistaken at first glance, due to its redish color.

    From the web page:

    "The DRA12 is a direct replacement for the Winchester WAA12."
    Last edited by RMc; 10-09-2014 at 08:47 PM.

  9. #69
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    I've got 700 of the old red ones on the way now heh heh...Nothing I found worked better than those with the Lee 7/8 slug either. Now if I could just find some powder. That's getting seriously low.

  10. #70
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    More on the DRA12

    By way of further clarification, a quick note to Down Range Mfg. brought this response on the DRA-12:

    "The DRA-12 copper is like the pre WAA12 Winchester wad, this wad is shorter than the one made today.

    The DR118 is the same length as the current production WAA12 wad.

    They both use the same load data. If you are loading with a 30 and larger Mec bushing the Copper wad works better. A 30 and smaller the DR118 works better."





    Quote Originally Posted by RMc View Post
    Unfortunately, no.

    I can see how the DRA12 wad illustrated could be mistaken at first glance, due to its redish color.

    From the web page:

    "The DRA12 is a direct replacement for the Winchester WAA12."
    Last edited by RMc; 11-04-2019 at 02:39 PM. Reason: clarify

  11. #71
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    OK, i finally got to trying the 3&1/2buckshot in a few wads, and they do self-stack into layers of 2 in a 20ga CSD wad, with 16 pellets (427gr) filling the wad:


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20ga3.5buck18pellet427gr.jpg 
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ID:	121746They fit in layers of 3 in other wads, which isnt what I was after.

    My thinking is that where they give up .01" (.26" vs .27") and 2-to-4 pellets to factory no3buckshot offerings, the combination of layers of 2, plus containment in the wad, plus lack of bore scrubbing causing distorted pellets and flyers; all should tighten up the pattern compared to factory no3buck loads that are stuffed in the hull causing dimpling.

    Just need to slice some petals (CSD wads have no petals) and get some ~1oz load data (427gr is between 15/16oz and 1oz) and try them out.

    C-


    Quote Originally Posted by RMc View Post
    A .260" diameter pellet would probably come the closest to self stacking in layers of two inside most 20 gauge shot cup wads. The two pellets would have a stacking width of .520" and would not need a "poke" to seat correctly at the base of the wad.

    Ballistic Products sells just such a pellet size under the moniker of
    #3 1/2 Super Buck.

    .260" #3 1/2 27.0 grains 16.2 per ounce 259 per Lb.
    Last edited by cpileri; 11-13-2014 at 07:57 PM.
    ____________
    "...the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions." In 1984, Orwell added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we fear will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we desire will ruin us. This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right.” -N.Postman

  12. #72
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    Also, it is apparently difficult to find lead shot or buffered shot loads for these CSD 20ga wads, not suprising since they are made for steel shot. but still; since I am working w lead buckshot...

    any one know of any data w lead in the CSD?
    C-
    ____________
    "...the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions." In 1984, Orwell added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we fear will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we desire will ruin us. This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right.” -N.Postman

  13. #73
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    Some interesting nuggets regarding buffered loads... more or less related to my search...

    (by turbo1889 on 10 April 2009):
    So long as you properly match your choice of buffer material to the intensity level of your load it doesn’t raise pressure all that much. For load data with book pressure test levels below 10-K I will just add the buffer to the load and load it like it is. For loads with book pressure levels above 10-K I step up to using the powder charge for the next heavier load. For example, using 1-5/8oz. powder charge levels for 1-1/2oz. loads seems to work just fine.
    C-
    ____________
    "...the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions." In 1984, Orwell added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we fear will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we desire will ruin us. This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right.” -N.Postman

  14. #74
    Boolit Master
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    CSD20 lead loading data:

    https://www.ballisticproducts.com/bp...3A1_200604.pdf


    Quote Originally Posted by cpileri View Post
    Also, it is apparently difficult to find lead shot or buffered shot loads for these CSD 20ga wads, not suprising since they are made for steel shot. but still; since I am working w lead buckshot...

    any one know of any data w lead in the CSD?
    C-
    Last edited by RMc; 11-17-2014 at 12:32 AM.

  15. #75
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    Thanks,RMc!
    This one is helpful:
    Blue Dot 21gr, OB20+CSD20, 1&1/4oz lead, 1120fps/9400psi

    If i add 2 more pellets (+54gr payload weight ) for a total of 18 pellets at 481gr of buckshot, plus some buffer; and use turbo1889's guideline posted above, looks like a safe load at least.

    Will need to test of course.

    The other load, closer in weight to my original 16 pellet (427gr) wad fill;
    Blue dot 26.5gr, OB20+CSD20, 1/4" felt wad in bottom, 1oz lead, 1340fps/ 10.5kpsi

    Seems too high pressure to "just add buffer". But if i reduced the load similar to this 1&1/8oz (483gr) one:
    Blue dot 24gr, OB20+CSD20, 1/4" felt, 1&1/8oz lead, 1300fps/11kpsi

    for a total experimental series of

    Blue Dot 21-24gr, OB20+CSD20, 16-18 pellets of no3.5buck (481gr)+buffer

    What type of buffer: i have PSB, and BPIs no47 and BPIs original. ???

    That, and also if I do 18 pellets, they will stick out over the top of the wad, so wont be buffered. So i think i will stick w 16 pellets. I'll do 18 if I test an UN-buffered load.

    C-
    Last edited by cpileri; 11-16-2014 at 11:32 AM.
    ____________
    "...the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions." In 1984, Orwell added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we fear will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we desire will ruin us. This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right.” -N.Postman

  16. #76
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    I am thinking, i'd get out to test sooner if I just fired into dry newspaper.
    The logistics of the wetpack is daunting.
    ____________
    "...the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions." In 1984, Orwell added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we fear will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we desire will ruin us. This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right.” -N.Postman

  17. #77
    Boolit Master Blood Trail's Avatar
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    Tagged. Interested in seeing your results. I'm working on a long range #4 buck load myself.

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	164258

  18. #78
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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk1458741958.077203.jpg 
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ID:	164259

  19. #79
    Boolit Buddy
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    Try cutting reverse Petals in the Unslit Wad. I took the Idea from Federal's Dead Coyote Load. It does work even with Wads without the Flared Gas Seal. I tried it with Buckshot and Tungsten Shot and was getting great Patterns out to 50-55 Yards. I didn't try it out further. Start cutting the Petals about 3/8- 1/2" from the unslit top of the Wad, and stop about 1/4" above the Bottom. I've converted to using the PSB Buffer from PR, it's much cheaper and better than the **** from BPI.

    In addition, PR will usually send You a few Wad Samples if requested before You order. They have most of the same ones as BPI, and should be able to help cross reference Them for you.
    Greg
    AKA 12 Bore

  20. #80
    In Remembrance

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    Greg,
    Can you draw a picture (or send me oen to post) of the 'reverse petal' cut?

    BT,
    Hopw many pellets you got in there?
    ____________
    "...the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions." In 1984, Orwell added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we fear will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we desire will ruin us. This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right.” -N.Postman

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check