45-70 shot shells

[Crawdaddy]

I tried my 44 mag shotshells in my contender Christmas day. Dismal results. Anything beyond 10 yards was no good.
I had rounds from 1/2 oz to 7/8 oz. I didnt try different velocities.

I bought some 410 wadds and I am going to try it in the 45/70 contender this weekend. ( If time permits)

[CZVZ]

I have no experience with shotgun reloading, I was hoping someone/Larry could help me out. First is there anything magical with the Federal shotcup? can I use another brand? and where does one get "Dacron" for use as a wad? I have a .45-70 and like others I see more grouse deerhunting then any other time! Thanx
CZVZ

[Larry Gibson]

I have no experience with shotgun reloading, I was hoping someone/Larry could help me out. First is there anything magical with the Federal shotcup? can I use another brand? and where does one get "Dacron" for use as a wad? I have a .45-70 and like others I see more grouse deerhunting then any other time! Thanx
CZVZ

I've looked at a couple other wads and the Federal is thinner and spreads out easier in the somewhat larger 45-70 case so it holds more shot. Nothing "magic" about it, the others may work as well. One bag of the wads has lasted me a long time.

If you've an old pillow or stuffed toy around they will probably be filled with Dacron. Dacron is a trade name for polyester material. You can buy it in bags and in sheets called "batting" (I prefer the batting sheets as it's easy to cut strips and then chunks in the size needed) in most any fabric store or fabric department in other stores like WalMart. Pictured is what's available in my local WalMart.

I didn't "pattern" the shot loads in the usual way. I set pop/beer cans in 3 yard increments from 10 out to 30 yards. I've walked up on many grouse or had them sitting a tree or bush with in those distances when deer/elk hunting. If the load will put 3+ shot through the can it would have taken a grouse and probably still be dense enough for quail. As I said I find them effective enough in my TD carbine & OM for 20-25 yards on grouse and quail.

I've not tried the handgun (revolver) shot loads on anything other than vermin at very close range. Have a Contender 45 Colt/.410 with choke but haven't tried it yet. A friend has had one for years and does very well on grouse/quail with it.

Larry Gibson

Attachment 92700

[35 shooter]

As far as the hole in the middle of the pattern with 45/410s i experimented with my front site to put the densest part of the pattern on target. By cutting the amount of front site used or maybe holding a bit more front site above rear(doesn't take much) puts the doughnut part of the pattern above or below target. Once i figured out the site picture, it would hold fairley tight patterns to 30 yards with the same sight hold. However your only utilizing about half the amount of shot in the shell by doing this but it does work for me.

Don't know if that would work in the 45/70 shot loads...never tried it.
Hope i explained the technique well enough, cause it does work well with 45/410 pistols without a choke tube on small game. It turned my Bond Derringer into a 20 to 25 yard squirrel and rabbit getter.

[762 shooter]

I wonder if a shot cup made from a cut down piece of brass would work? The closest fit I've found so far is a 762x39 case. Back with Dacron and a card wad and crimp over a card wad. Swagers use then every day for prophylactics. If the shot doesn't work the brass case might. I wonder if a case would fit inside of a shotcup?

Interesting. Unless someone thinks it is explosively dangerous I might have to try this.

762

[winchester85]

one of my favorite grouse guns is a trapper 94 in 45 colt. the big slow bullet just punches a hole in them, does not blow them up. why not just carry a low velocity large bullet round for the small animals?

[762 shooter]

one of my favorite grouse guns is a trapper 94 in 45 colt. the big slow bullet just punches a hole in them, does not blow them up. why not just carry a low velocity large bullet round for the small animals?

Screwing with stuff is more fun.

762

[miner_loads]

I use 8gr of unique cardboard wad tamp with a pencil fill with 7.5 shot a cardboard cap and a crimp seems to pattern tight.

[M Hicks]

I appreciate the great info. does anyone have any past experience with pouring hot wax over the whole load of shot? basically molding it into a solid mass of shot and wax? wonder what that might do to hold the shot together a little further for a tighter pattern.

I've done the wax slug with 12 ga. loads. It essentially acts as a slug until it hits something. I was able to get a 4"-5" group at 100 yards with a smooth bore 18" barrel on an 870.

With rifling it may break up a little. I don't know if it would work for grouse though. I think if it breaks up it will be in large chunks instead of holding a tight pattern. Best way to find out is to give it try.

[NSP64]

Use a single round ball in a cat sneeze load.
There is a thread about making shot containers from plastic milk cartons.

[trapper9260]

I know this is a old post. I like to know if the 45/70 case would fit in a 410 . to use as a shot shell.thank you

[Wolfer]

I use 444 cases in my 410. I believe 45-70 will be too big

While the 444 case works pretty well in my NEF it doesn't fit some other brands. The rim is too thick.

[trapper9260]

Thank you Wolfer. for letting me know.

[bstone5]

Like Wolfer, I use the 444 Marlin brass for 410 shot shells. Shoot in a H&R single shot break open and a S&W Governor hand gun. Sometimes with some guns the rim will need to thinned by cutting from the case side of the rim. Have trimmed some for a friend using my lathe. Just a few thousands is all that has to be trimmed.

[brass410]

I use 9.3 x74r for my brass410 shell very close to a 3" round

[Handshaker]

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but what powder is used to make 45-70 shotshells? I know i can use blackMZ but i was wondering if any rifle powder can be safely used?

[Outpost75]

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but what powder is used to make 45-70 shotshells? I know i can use blackMZ but i was wondering if any rifle powder can be safely used?

Any pistol or shotshell powder can be used if you keep the charges light. I use 5 grains of Bullseye in the Starline 5in1 Blank cases for use in the .44 Garden Gun, .44-40, .44 Magnum, and. 45 Colt using a Dacron wad and Federal shot cup as Larry described. In Magtech 2-1/2 inch. 410 all brass I use 8 grains ofBullseye. In fire-formed 9.3x74R 2-3/4 inch cases I load the same 8 grains of Bullseye.

Patterns are good to 20 feet in my 1905 Colt SA and 1920 Colt New Service, and to 30 ft. in El Tigre carbine. In cylinder bore .410 good skeet patterns at 20 yards, in a full choke .410 squirrels are in danger to 25-30 yards.

[Handshaker]

I dont reload pistol but use h335 for my BFR and 1895. The only pistol powder i have is winchester 231 in a big tin tub i got from a lott of powder i bought and some hercules 2400.
thank you

[gunther]

the old shotgun-card shooter trick was either dope the shot with honey, or the more modern way is to use STP. Either results in very tight patterns from a 12 gauge. A rifled barrel may need some experimenting.

[Harter66]

This is something I've dabbled in for some time . I've loaded a number of loads in 45 Colts and a few for the sake of trying it in a 45 Raptor .
The .445×.452 barrel let's the shot slid some I think as long as the wadding doesn't hold onto the shot or also jumps the rifling .

My permanent solution idea is to have a barrel back bored enough to take an extended Wad-Lok straight rifled 28 ga extended "turkey" extra full type screw in choke . The choke is big enough to clear , .530ish , even a .460 dia bullet the extended chokes are about 3" long . In theory the shot charge would open to meet the choke , at .560 then be choked back down . Pretty expensive test ......

There's a Brazilian 45/410 single shot pistol that has an external fingered straight rifled choke that takes a cylinder 24"@25 yd and takes it down to about 10" . You can't shoot a .452 through it though because the choke goes to about .400 .
My actual 410 is .386 at the muzzle with a .405 ish breach end . I have a barrel I might try it on for a 95 Mauser .
I wasn't able to locate diameter values for a 32 ga which might be better than the 28 ga .