New to 7.62x38R Nagant reloading

[reloader762]

I would like to reload the 7.62x38R Nagant cartridge. I have dies, .311 100gr SWC cast boolits, once fired 7.62x38R Nagant Revolver brass and small pistol primers but no reload data.

My search-fu is not working for me, and I'm having a problem with finding powder(s) in my area so I'm looking for load data for the only handgun powder I have which is Unique. I've found a lot of recipes for Trail Boss and others, but only a few for Unique and they have been all over the map regarding amounts from 1.2 grains to a whooping (in comparison) 4.5 grains of powder.

If anyone reloads for the Nagant Revolver and has a recipe for the other components I have and uses Unique, please share. Thanks in advance.

[webfoot10]

Start at 2.5 grs of Unique, work up till you get what you want. I would not go above
3.5 grs. I use 3.5 grs of Bullseye in my nagant shoots well, no pressure concerns and
is accurate.
webfoot10

[dagunnut]

reloader762

This is what data I have compiled off of the internet that uses Unique powder. Again this is internet data so use with extreme caution and always verify data against a reputable source. I also have blackpowder data from a member here if that's of interest to you.

3.5 gr unique and a hornady 32 cal HB WC in 32-20 brass sized in a 7.62 Nagant die.

Lyman #313492 - 85.0 grs - WW/Lino - 3:1 - Cast .312 - Sized .310 - 3.0 grs Unique - Sim. Lube - Reformed .32-20 Cases - OAL 1.52"

32/20 brass, 100 gr Lee, cci 500, COAL 1.505" (cylinder just rotates) light crimped over ogive UNIQUE-3.2 -657 fps

I used a Lee 30 cal mold, 100 gr, homemade lube, Prvi brass, Win SP primers, and unique. I got up to 5.5 gr Unique without any trouble extracting, but the recoil was somewhat brisk. I eventually dropped down to 5.3 gr Unique, mostly because I don't care for excessive recoil. With this load, my gun seems to be accurate enough, and I no longer have function problems.

I rechambered mine to .32-20. The only roblem is, you have to load the rounds about 1/10" short. 93 gr Lee RN with 4.2gr Unique. By the way, you have to countersink the rims about 2/100" to let the thicker .32-20 rims headspace


I rolled up a box of my standard reloads for it yesterday; PPU brass and 5.3 gr Unique under a Lee 100 gr cast PB. Lube is a homemade concoction of paraffin, water pump grease and JPW. I haven't officially checked the accuracy, but it is minute of paper plate at 25 yards, and loads of fun to shoot. I plan to work on the trigger, which is truly awful.


Lee 311-93-1R boolit over 3.7 grains of unique gave ONE RAGGED HOLE at 10 yards.


These are a hoot to cast for, as well as shoot. I use 4 gr of Unique under a 90 gr Lee .314 SWC TL bullet with excellent results. I also seat the bullet so the nose is just inside the case-mouth.


I had my Nagant at the range today. Fired 32-20 length Nagant brass and the same loads in full length Nagant brass.
Accuracy was better with the full length brass as well as velocity. 3.9grs of Unique propels the Lee 93gr RN over 1,000 fps. 4.1grs of Unique makes it bark a little and velocity is right around 1,100 fps.


The load it likes the best is the Hornady HBWC and 4.3 gr Unique. It also likes Lee's 93 rg RN for the .32 S&W Long sized .310" 4.3 gr Unique.


the Lyman #314294 cast in WW at about 90 grains, Remingtom small pistol primers & 3.0 to 3.7 grains of Unique. The bullet is crimped in the crimping groove & standard .32-20 dies are used.


load an 85 grain lyman wadcutter sized .310 over 3.2-3.4 grains of Unique. I also load two .31cal 45 grain round balls over the same charge. they shoot about 700fps over my chronograph.


I loaded 4 X Unique in the 32-20 case with the 77 grain 313 diameter round nose seated just deep enough at 1.521” to allow the cylinder to rotate. The idea was an attempt to produce better accuracy as the bullet was closer to the rifling then the others. Also it allowed me to use the correct diameter bullet as opposed to the 308 slugs. The idea worked quite well. Hitting small targets at 15 yards was not much of a problem except for the sights. Paper targets show smaller groups with .313 diameter bullets especially the wad cutters. I had some groups that had 3 or 4 bullets touching at 10 yards with the rest from 1 to 3” away. That was measurably better then the Nagant factory or my Nagant ammo.


I mainly use Unique for my loads. I use from 2.2 to 3.5 gr depending on my bullet weights. I use 313492, 313445, 313631, 313249 and 313226 cast bullets. I size my bullets to .310-.311.


The bullet I used was the Lee 314g 90g SWC. I loaded tham as dropped at .315 JPW and 2.6g of Unique. I did see some improvement but not as much as I hoped for.

Happy Holidays and safe shooting!
Mario
dagunnut

[leadman]

I have found that the Fiochi and PPU brass expands the case mouth out more than the Russian surplus and this causes extraction problems. The Russian brass is much thicker.
To make this boxer primed brass work I trim it to the same length as the cylinder. I use a .314" Lee 93gr RN boolit and 4 grs of Unique and it shoots very well and brass pushes out easily. There is a slight reduction in velocity of around 50 fps compared to the gas seal cases but the ease of extraction is worth it. The Lee boolit will bridge the gap to cylinder gap some so not as much velocity is lost as shorter 32-20 cases.
I bought some Bertram brass from Australia a few years back but it has a rim like the 32-20 so some it it had to be thinned to work.

These guns are looked down on by some but I find they a light enough to carry easily, low recoil, and once the proper diameter boolit is used shoot pretty good.

[nhrifle]

I tried the 32-20 brass and had some fun shooting it, but best performance in mine is by loading the cartridge as it originally was. Full length brass, small rifle magnum primer, a full case of black powder topped with a card wad, and the boolit seated to below the case mouth. Taper crimp on the mouth to give the original gas seal effect. This makes a powerful load and is quite something to shoot at night. BP substitutes will work, but standard precautions about Pyrodex and corrosion apply.

[leadman]

Mine shoots good with a gas seal cartridge, just that the case over expands and is a bear to get out of the cylinder. The heavier Russian surplus doesn't do this.
I'll have to try black powder. What granulation are you using? I have 3f, 2f, and several of the substitutes.

I made a tool to go in my Lee Universal case expander to taper crimp the case like the Russian surplus ammo is originally. Works well but don't use it now.

[nhrifle]

I use 2F as it is what I have on hand, but you could probably get a better load with 3F as you will get better density. And yes, some of the cases don't want to come out after firing. Give the ejection rod a good smack.

[jonk]

There are 2 challenges to reloading this cartridge.

1. If you use original type brass, you will never get the mouth open enough with standard loading dies to get the bullet to fully seat in the case. Even after firing, a .311 just won't go in. Could be my cylinder. I had to cut the brass all down to 32/20 length, and no issues then. This doesn't entirely surprise me as the original load used an undersized bullet seated deep in the case below the neck with a hollow base, meant to swell up to fit the bore- which whether using surplus or new production factory, has never been all that accurate for me.

2. If you use 32/20 brass, the thicker rim will often bind. If you look on youtube, a guy shows how to modify the gun to use the brass. usually the clearance with the frame/cylinder is fine, it's the hammer block that moves foward to initiate the gas seal that's too thick. File a thousandth or two off it and it goes fine, and doesn't impede using regular nagant brass either.

One of those modifications done, the gun is simple to load for. I use 32/20 pistol data since that's the parent case I'm using- not to be confused with 32/20 rifle data. .32 SW long data may also safely be used.

So far my best load is a 100 gr HBWC over 2.8 gr of bullseye.

[Boolseye]

I notice that some of the posts mention fairly stout loads–I tend to load conservatively for mine, though it certainly seems like the gun is rugged enough to withstand the stuff folks are mentioning here. I tend to hang right around 3 grains of BE or the equivalent for my Nagant pistol loads, using the Lee 314-95 SWC and 312-100 RN (lapped to .314). There is no neck tension with cast bullets under .314" using my Lee dies and 32-20 cases. I did take a couple .001s off of the abutment piece (the movable part through which the firing pin strikes), but I used a medium-fine stone and I only took off metal 'til it would chamber 32-20 cases, no more. The youtube video has you using a grinder or something, taking off .015" or .020." Too much.

[Nickle]

I've used 700X and I do believe Bullseye ought to work too. Red Dot should be right there with them. Weights to use will vary.

[reloader762]

My first attempt isn't going so well. The .311 diameter is too wide to fit into the cylinders of any of my Nagant revolvers and has bulged the case. I had slugged the bores and figured this was a good diameter, but now I see the folly in my logic.

Good news is that the die set I have will seat the bullet deep enough and even produced a crimp as on some of the new ammo.

What diameter bullet do you all use with the Nagant revolver?

[Boolseye]

The .311 diameter is too wide to fit into the cylinders of any of my Nagant revolvers and has bulged the case.

I encourage you to abandon the factory Nagant cases and go the well-documented (and Lee recommended) 32-20 route.
The bore is unlikely to be smaller than .312", so if you can't chamber a .311" CB your accuracy may be poor.

[swheeler]

reloader762

This is what data I have compiled off of the internet that uses Unique powder. Again this is internet data so use with extreme caution and always verify data against a reputable source. I also have blackpowder data from a member here if that's of interest to you.

3.5 gr unique and a hornady 32 cal HB WC in 32-20 brass sized in a 7.62 Nagant die.

Lyman #313492 - 85.0 grs - WW/Lino - 3:1 - Cast .312 - Sized .310 - 3.0 grs Unique - Sim. Lube - Reformed .32-20 Cases - OAL 1.52"

32/20 brass, 100 gr Lee, cci 500, COAL 1.505" (cylinder just rotates) light crimped over ogive UNIQUE-3.2 -657 fps

I used a Lee 30 cal mold, 100 gr, homemade lube, Prvi brass, Win SP primers, and unique. I got up to 5.5 gr Unique without any trouble extracting, but the recoil was somewhat brisk. I eventually dropped down to 5.3 gr Unique, mostly because I don't care for excessive recoil. With this load, my gun seems to be accurate enough, and I no longer have function problems.

I rechambered mine to .32-20. The only roblem is, you have to load the rounds about 1/10" short. 93 gr Lee RN with 4.2gr Unique. By the way, you have to countersink the rims about 2/100" to let the thicker .32-20 rims headspace


I rolled up a box of my standard reloads for it yesterday; PPU brass and 5.3 gr Unique under a Lee 100 gr cast PB. Lube is a homemade concoction of paraffin, water pump grease and JPW. I haven't officially checked the accuracy, but it is minute of paper plate at 25 yards, and loads of fun to shoot. I plan to work on the trigger, which is truly awful.


Lee 311-93-1R boolit over 3.7 grains of unique gave ONE RAGGED HOLE at 10 yards.


These are a hoot to cast for, as well as shoot. I use 4 gr of Unique under a 90 gr Lee .314 SWC TL bullet with excellent results. I also seat the bullet so the nose is just inside the case-mouth.


I had my Nagant at the range today. Fired 32-20 length Nagant brass and the same loads in full length Nagant brass.
Accuracy was better with the full length brass as well as velocity. 3.9grs of Unique propels the Lee 93gr RN over 1,000 fps. 4.1grs of Unique makes it bark a little and velocity is right around 1,100 fps.


The load it likes the best is the Hornady HBWC and 4.3 gr Unique. It also likes Lee's 93 rg RN for the .32 S&W Long sized .310" 4.3 gr Unique.


the Lyman #314294 cast in WW at about 90 grains, Remingtom small pistol primers & 3.0 to 3.7 grains of Unique. The bullet is crimped in the crimping groove & standard .32-20 dies are used.


load an 85 grain lyman wadcutter sized .310 over 3.2-3.4 grains of Unique. I also load two .31cal 45 grain round balls over the same charge. they shoot about 700fps over my chronograph.


I loaded 4 X Unique in the 32-20 case with the 77 grain 313 diameter round nose seated just deep enough at 1.521” to allow the cylinder to rotate. The idea was an attempt to produce better accuracy as the bullet was closer to the rifling then the others. Also it allowed me to use the correct diameter bullet as opposed to the 308 slugs. The idea worked quite well. Hitting small targets at 15 yards was not much of a problem except for the sights. Paper targets show smaller groups with .313 diameter bullets especially the wad cutters. I had some groups that had 3 or 4 bullets touching at 10 yards with the rest from 1 to 3” away. That was measurably better then the Nagant factory or my Nagant ammo.


I mainly use Unique for my loads. I use from 2.2 to 3.5 gr depending on my bullet weights. I use 313492, 313445, 313631, 313249 and 313226 cast bullets. I size my bullets to .310-.311.


The bullet I used was the Lee 314g 90g SWC. I loaded tham as dropped at .315 JPW and 2.6g of Unique. I did see some improvement but not as much as I hoped for.

Happy Holidays and safe shooting!
Mario
dagunnut

I think I would be worried about loosing a skirt off that Hornady HBWC at 1100 fps, YMMV

[Nickle]

I encourage you to abandon the factory Nagant cases and go the well-documented (and Lee recommended) 32-20 route.
The bore is unlikely to be smaller than .312", so if you can't chamber a .311" CB your accuracy may be poor.

I'll warn you on this one. Use Starline brass, not Remington. And, yes, this is what I do.

RCBS flat based wadcutter, RCBS 32-098-WC bullet. I sized them down smaller than needed, but I'm using those up for gallery type loads for 30-30 and other 30 cal rifles.

[leadman]

I'm able to load .314" boolits in my Nagant with no issues. Brass for this gun varies alot in quality and thickness. The Russian ammo has a .309" bullet, at least the one I tore down. There is a Russian with a full wadcutter also.
I have had many of the PPU cases split at the case mouth on the first firing. PPU and Fiocci do not use the proper crimp on the case and this overworks the brass. I made a tool for my Lee Universal Expander that mimics the Russian cases.
I still have to convert some of primer pockets of Russian surplus cases to see if when reloaded back to factory specs they will eject from the cylinder as easily as when new.
My load is within 20fps or so of the Russian surplus ammo and recoil feels about the same. Case measurements are not valid due to the different thickness of the brass.

[bearbud]

My most used loads are: 2.9gr of Unique at 790fps and 3.3gr of Unique at 970fps.
Lee 311-100-2R (0.311”) cast soft from range scrap and 2500+ lubed. PRVI brass and a taper crimp by 30 carbine taper crimp die (Lee) to make the gas seal. And just a reference for this particular revolver: PRVI 98gr FMJ shoots at 628fps, and Russian mil-surp 108gr FMJFN shoots at 875fps. (All measured 10 feet from the barrel)
bearbud

[texassako]

They are a lot of fun loaded with BP as well. I use FFFg and Ranchdog's .32 ACP design with Fiocchi brass in a little pocket revolver chambered in the caliber, not the usual Russian surplus revolver. Seat the bullet down into the case like the original and I smear a bit of lube over the case mouth since the TL grooves don't hold much. I envy the gas seal that would make cleanup a cinch, though.

[nwellons]

I have only reloaded for my Nagant with 3f Goex, reused Hotshot Nagant brass and the Lee 311-100-2r boolit cast with clip-on wheel weights. I'm a plinker so I can't vouch for target accuracy but it is accurate enough for me.

What is interesting is the variability in velocity with BP and different primers.

Check out the Chronograph results:

With small pistol primers 202 Average; 225, 267, 176
With small rifle primers 223 Average; 168, 194, 216, 330, 192, 202, 280
Small Magnum Pistol primers 736 AVG 1247, 470, 1227, 297, 405, 286, 1220
Small Magnum Rifle primers 1248 AVG 1253, 1237, 1241, 1255, 1256, 1249 Best standard deviation and as you may expect, best accuracy.

As you can see, the only consistent velocity load is with the small magnum rifle primers. And the boolit is moving quite fast at 10 feet from the muzzle. I have no trouble ejecting the brass and can often poke the front of the case with my finger to push it out.

[Okie73]

I load Lee TL314-90-SWC made from pure lead and lubed with my own BP lube.
1cc of 777 3f and a CCI small pistol mag primer in PRVI cases trimmed to 1.485. The cases were reamed .3115 to hold the .313 boolit.
This was the only way I could seat a boolit big enough and have it chamber. Boolit was seated flush with case mouth.
These rounds shoot to sights and group well. 1000FPS

[jimb16]

Although I no longer reload that round, I did for a long time. I sized the cases with a .30 carbine die. Expanded the mouth with a carbine expander. Seated the bullet inside the case using a bullet sizing die nose punch and crimped the case with a carbine crimp die. The original cases worked fine and I never needed to modify them or the firearm. The small amount of crimp you get from the carbine die allowed the casemouth to enter the seal area of the barrel freely and didn't overwork the brass. HTH