Jess did say a 243 will make a great donor, but before I purchase a rifle I'll make another call to make sure. I'll also check barrel dia. on both 700's I've got in the safe.Originally Posted by Nrut
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Jess did say a 243 will make a great donor, but before I purchase a rifle I'll make another call to make sure. I'll also check barrel dia. on both 700's I've got in the safe.
"Life isn't like a box of chocolates...It's more like
a jar of jalapenos. What you do today, might burn
your ass tomorrow."
You should really pay attention to Goodsteel, after all, it's what he does. If it were me wanting this rifle, and it might be one day, I would stay away from the newer design actions and stick with tried and true Savage, Rem 700, Mauser, Winchester, etc. The $300 rifles are made for a specific purpose, and I really doubt that's long term durability. The other point is this: just because you put $600-700 in a $300 rifle won't make it a $700 rifle. You'd be in a M700 for more, but you could get your money back out of it if you wanted to.
Most people would sooner die than think, in fact, they do so. -B. Russell
I agree putting $600~$700 into a rifle doesn't nesisarrly make it worth that much more. Even if the rifle started life at $500~$1000 and you put said money into it,doesn't make it worth what you put into it.
I'm not building this rifle for resale but to use, I've only sold/traded 3 guns in my life. So once its built its not going anywhere.
"Life isn't like a box of chocolates...It's more like
a jar of jalapenos. What you do today, might burn
your ass tomorrow."
The big differance between the ADL and the BDL is the time it takes to finish it.
If you look at the Genesis rifle I built in special projects, you might be shocked to learn that that rifle started life as a 700 ADL Walmart special.
However, it took several hours drawfiling in order to get the rough finish off the action because the ADL's are forged, blasted, and coated with Remington's unbustable, mat black, cover many sins, orange peel, finish.
Also, when I got to the bolt shroud, I found that it had been a key lock style and Remington had simply hammered an aluminum slug into the round hole, belt sanded it smooth, painted it, and sent it out the door.
Also, the finish on the bolt is better/more accurate because the BDL is polished and engine turned, while the ADL has the same orange peel finish that the action does. SO by the time you get the bolt polished out, you have a loose sloppy bolt fit that takes even more time to correct.
You see, they kick you in the nuts every chance they get with these cheap rifles! Every time you turn around you find a place where they have sacrificed quality, witch in turn forces you to sacrifice quality, or spend a lot of money and time trying to correct what was jacked up at the factory.
If you buy a nice BDL, it was intended to have a good finish while still working smoothly and tightly, which means it's more accurate by definition.
You get what you pay for. The trick is to know what exactly you are paying for. Not everything is as it seems. Remember if you change A, you effect B C D and E. The gunsmith blank actions from Brownells give you the best shot at a good custom rifle, but there's a reason why companies like Stiller are in business. They provide a foundational action that is simply correctly made right off the bat. You will never run into a corner cut with that action, or be displeased with the quality in any way. Same goes for Surgeon.
You wouldn't think it would be all that blamed hard to get a rifle action that is just held to the same tolerances that wartime Mausers were held to when Germany was about to get it's butt handed to it, but unfortunately, Remington has figured out what the bare minimum acceptable quality standard is, and they ride right on the fence with most of their products.
That's why I prefer to build inexpensive custom rifles on early Mausers, and the Argentine is my favorite, followed closely by an early Austrian Mauser, and that is followed by the Type 38 Arisaka (certainly gunning for first place with the Argentine, but for some reason loses value like a rock, so it's simply a personal favorite)
As far as modern actions go, the Winchester FN CRF is the clear winner (check out the rifle I built for LoveLife in special projects) followed by the Winchester push-feed (love love love 'em!) Followed by the Remington.
Eoropian rifle actions?
Sako followed by CZ, both of which stomp any production American rifle hands down, and some of the Sako's (like my AV) could give Surgeon a run for their money!
Any of these will be a covetous piece if built correctly and accurately by a discerning home smith.
Last edited by MBTcustom; 01-15-2014 at 10:42 AM.
Precision in the wrong place is only a placebo.
Don't leave me hanging goodsteel
"Life isn't like a box of chocolates...It's more like
a jar of jalapenos. What you do today, might burn
your ass tomorrow."
I didn't. I have to start a post with my phone, then edit. Don't ask. LOL!
Precision in the wrong place is only a placebo.
Thank you very much for the explanation, now I'm on the same page. I know I'm thick headed and sometimes need things spelled out, but I've seen the light.
"Life isn't like a box of chocolates...It's more like
a jar of jalapenos. What you do today, might burn
your ass tomorrow."
Both the 700's barrels measure .660 at the muzzle.
"Life isn't like a box of chocolates...It's more like
a jar of jalapenos. What you do today, might burn
your ass tomorrow."
lol ok
"Life isn't like a box of chocolates...It's more like
a jar of jalapenos. What you do today, might burn
your ass tomorrow."
warf73, it is up to the guy that does the rebore job as to min. dia.
My smith sez that the thinnest wall that he will turn a barrel to is .100" per side if he is to mount a front site with screws..
That will give you a muzzle dia. of .558" and your muzzle dia. is well over that..
.358"+ .200" (both sides) = .558" muzzle dia.
PM sent on other info..
Just picked up a Savage model 10 243. Sending it to JES, wont even shoot it beforehand. I paid about 300 for it.
Did you buy local? That is a great price on the rifle.
"Life isn't like a box of chocolates...It's more like
a jar of jalapenos. What you do today, might burn
your ass tomorrow."
Internet, accu trigger, plastic stock, blind mag. Will cost about 350 after shipping, fees and taxes are pd. Probably what I would consider minimum quality to base a project on. The previous posters are 100% right in telling you not to start with junk, you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Its too bad the stevens 200 isnt still available for around 300, I've based a couple of projects on those and they work out well.
I'd scratch the American for sure. I played with one of mi e's mag today. They only will fit a 2.800 OAL and most 338s are 2.820. Most .358s are 2.75-2.8 but the molded area only fits a .359 225g Gameking if forced.
I get that, but I'd be worried about putting money into a rifle that might puke a few years down the road. The $300 rifles are made for a specific purpose, and I'm glad companies make them because I don't want to see anyone priced out of hunting and shooting. But I'm not sure they're made for the long haul if you shoot them a lot.
Most people would sooner die than think, in fact, they do so. -B. Russell
That's to bad..
I have a .308 compact on order and had given a thought to do some barrel switching similar to the Savage barrel nut system..
They wont puke. They won't "wear out in a few years". In a large way, that's the problem. You've got a junky rifle that just won't wear out very quickly. If you use it a lot, you might always be dissatisfied when you look at it or use it, because you really deserved more, but after you croak your kids are going to tell their buddies "I got my dad's old rifle! He carried this thing everywhere!"
Somehow I think they'll leave out the part about how you and the factory cut every corner you could to save money when it was worth doing better all along.
I see a rifle as a time capsule. It is meant to be a tool that is used and treasured, and eventually a part of you is left in it for future generations to remember you by. I just can't tell you how many people come to me with their old busted *** that their dad or grandpa bought (probably thinking they'd just trade up when they found a better deal) that the kids just treasure like gold because of who it belonged to.
It's tragic when I tell them that it would cost 10 times what the gun is worth to repair it (stamped metal parts from scratch can be a bear let me tell ya!).
When I finally kick the rusty bucket, you know what they are going to find in my safe? A Sako AV in 358 Winchester, (dinged up certainly!) but carefully built by me to fit me, blued by me, barreled by me, and hunted with quite a bit. Daddy had a little bit of style! It didn't come cheap, and it shouldn't have, but it was worth the investment, and it's not going to break in my kids hands, or even their kids hands if I was to lay a bet.
I don't know, that's just the way I see it. Rifles are funny things, you never know which one you're going to get attached to, so you might as well hold a high standard for quality, ya know?
We all have a fan base that is going to treasure anything we might have felt inclined to make with our own hands, and a rifle has got to be at the top of the list as the most desirable thing that a loved one could own. It should be entered into carefully, and make sure that if it does nothing else, it reflects your personality and style, and every attempt should be made to convince the beholder that you had hidden talents and abilities, because it will be bragged on and treasured.
I don't know. It's hard to put what I think about a rifle into words effectively. Maybe I'm just weird and should lighten up. But it's hard to do that when you have clients like the guy that came to me last summer with his dad's old .22 single shot.
IT was missing the front sight, the elevator, and the trigger guard. The ejector was shot, it was rusted, dinged up, and the original owner had bent the bolt knob down and built it up into a rough "ball" shape with a stick welder, and finished it with an angle grinder.
This guy treasured that rifle like gold.
He paid me to replace all the missing and broken parts, and make them aged to be as close to what the original would have looked like had it ridden on the rifle the whole time (no problem! I good whack with a hammer and some salt water to get the rust to the same level did the trick!). I was not to clean up the stick welded bolt knob at all. That was the custom touch that his dad had put on that rifle. I was not to clean the rust off at all . I was not to polish the dings out of the stock at all.
That was all he had, and it was not to be erased under any circumstances, and when I was done he was amazed, and very happy.
Do you see where I'm coming from here?
Last edited by MBTcustom; 01-16-2014 at 11:32 AM.
Precision in the wrong place is only a placebo.
You're probably right, Tim. The Glocks of the rifle world will keep on ticking. My thoughts were that you can take that 1960s M700 and get a new trigger from Brownells, or put a new barrel in it. I don't see those things happening with 770s in thirty years.
Most people would sooner die than think, in fact, they do so. -B. Russell
On the upside I LOVE my compact. My 308 cast loads are doing well and it took low rings with a 1.5-6X 32mm scope. Sweet little package. I just need a bare strap sling for it.
I understand the desire to build a perfect heirloom rifle, but it's just not for me. I'd rather have something I can put down in the wet grass or lean against a rusty metal gate and not worry about ruining the value. While this thread has been running I've built the rifle pictured below. I know it's a cheap Savage Model 11, but I've enjoyed working on it and improving what I have. I worked the trigger to a crisp 2.5 lbs, rebarreled to 358 Win, and cut the barrel to 20" and recrowned on my lathe. After selling off the unused parts I have $445 in it excluding scope. I should be able to sell the headspace gauges and cheap factory scope and subtract another $35. So, total will be $410 including all taxes and shipping costs. Future upgrade will be to get a smaller/better scope, but for now it'll do.
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