Why some new members will do better than others here.

[Marlin Junky]

Wherever you eventually land, I hope they have a professional metallurgist on staff or at least on call to answer your questions adequately.

Now that's funny... congrats on your sarcastic wit (no sarcasm intended on my part).

Seriously though... this place has gotten very stale.

MJ

P.S. Perhaps a thought... ban me, censor me, I don't give a hoot. Perhaps there are too many here who are taking themselves too seriously? Who's to say who is right and who is wrong, given all the gray area involved in this dopey hobby... and what the heck is wrong with soliciting another opinion when one doesn't agree with what one reads? Man, I'm glad you guys aren't running the country. Y'all would be worse than who is runnin' the show now!

[cbrick]

Man, I'm glad you guys aren't running the country. Y'all would be worse than who is runnin' the show now!

Actually I don't think that's even possible.

Rick

[9.3X62AL]

It has gotten stale because of the comprehensive array of disincentives to the making of text/content contributions that have reigned here for the past several years. I have received administrative assurances that work is under way to address those problems, but I've seen little progress to date. The negativity and confrontational tone continues unabated, so I respond in kind. When in Rome.....

It comes down to this--I get real tired of getting told by googins that I don't know what I'm talking about in fields of endeavor where I have 30+ years of ongoing experience. When I respond negatively and in kind to those disparagements, I get fanged by moderators while the googins emerge unscathed. It doesn't take a lot of that drag to instruct me on how to act in the public sections of the site--I shut up. There is no vigor in defending one's self or position here. Ask Bret in NY about that course of conduct, and how it worked out for him.

[Marlin Junky]

...I get real tired of getting told by googins that I don't know what I'm talking about in fields of endeavor where I have 30+ years of ongoing experience.

I don't understand your point... are you referring to my metallurgist comment earlier? Are you a metallurgist? A "googin"? A fisherman who repeated does stupid things while fishing. Or a Fisherman who does not seem to be able to follow simple directions?? I'm really missing the context here... I guess I really stepped in it this time.

The negativity and confrontational tone continues unabated, so I respond in kind. When in Rome.....

I don't frequent the board that often anymore so I really don't know what to say other than I'm sorry you thought I was just piling on top for a pound of flesh (so to speak). I mean, if you read my post again in an objective light, I think you'll find it's pretty darn benign. Nevertheless, I still don't appreciate the insults and as Rome met its fate... perhaps it's time to let 'er burn.

MJ

[TXGunNut]

Yes. Al is a metallurgist, been working with metals for decades. One of many on this site. I don't know what field his degree is in but when he talks, I listen.

[9.3X62AL]

My point is far more general than your metallurgist callout. No, I'm not a metals expert in any form--but I do have 33 years of casting experience, and my observations made during that time could still potentially have merit, as unprofessional and unlettered as they might be. It doesn't take a metallurgist to make good roundballs around a friggin' campfire.

Am I a mite bristly? Yes I am. I sure as hell didn't arrive here in that condition in 1996 when I started, but in almost 18 years of increasingly hostile and confrontive membership behavior--it has grown into place. So, in the spirit of the OP's thread title on longevity and duration, here is a demo cut of over a decade and a half of membership development and growth.

[cbrick]

It has gotten stale because of the comprehensive array of disincentives to the making of text/content contributions that have reigned here for the past several years.

It comes down to this--I get real tired of getting told by googins that I don't know what I'm talking about in fields of endeavor where I have 30+ years of ongoing experience.

No doubt the forum is sliding backwards, a lot of really talented people have left that had a lot to offer. I don't post much anymore in the way of testing and valid info, seems whenever you do someone will come back with the old wives tale and tell you your an idiot for not believing it or you don't know what your talking about because they have done it that way for years. Many of the old wives tales we had made good progress in eliminating, at least on this forum but a lot of them are back and trying to correct bad info seems pointless anymore.

Rick

[whisler]

Please don't stop correcting bad info! They say a lie repeated often enough will be believed. We can only hope that the same is true of the truth. I know that I really appreciate (and use) the good info relayed here. Keep it up.

[btroj]

Al and Maven, it is time to fight back.

I put up with enough BS in the lube quest. Lots of jabs, not much help. Sure dissuades one from sharing info in an open manner. Most of the work on that endeavor was done via PM to keep the trolls away.

I miss the days when there were potentially rancorous discussions but they were about what someone was actually doing at the time. It was people who were actually testing, observing, and doing things.

Theory only goes so far. I want to see the targets, here how you did it and why.

Man I miss the old days.

[olafhardt]

I do have some technical credentials which I will not elaborate on. I was wondering if the colorful sheen on the top of the melt might be something that separated out of the alloy and floated to the top as a liquid. Once there, it forms a sheen like oil on water.

[freebullet]

Wow this thread took a wrong turn from the humorous drift we had going.

If your not willing to share results why even be a member? I read posts here for a year before I joined. Guess what... A lot of them went off on the same journeys folks are complaining about now. From recent to archived threads a lot of bickering. I was still able to get useful information and I still do and try to help where I can.


I wonder if-
Love life ya try the super secret 38 load I posted for you yet?

[btroj]

I do have some technical credentials which I will not elaborate on. I was wondering if the colorful sheen on the top of the melt might be something that separated out of the alloy and floated to the top as a liquid. Once there, it forms a sheen like oil on water.

My understanding is that alloys don't gravity separate. I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts.

[9.3X62AL]

My understanding is that alloys don't gravity separate. I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts.

So would I. What I was told, regarding Marlin Junky's colors question, was that the blue and gold coloration was a product of surface oxidation of alloy or melt constituents. I have seen it most vividly while melting unalloyed lead at elevated temps (800*-850*) to decrease viscosity thermally during casting sequences. The 'colors' disappear upon fluxing, and return slowly if the melt remains exposed to air during the pouring. The colors have had no negative effect during dipper casting for me. I cast at far lower temps (675*-750*) with lead/tin and lead/tin/antimony alloys, due to those mixes being more fluid at those lower temps. This was instruction from 1981, followed by observation and consistent outcomes since that time. If it is metallurgically-unsound information, I would appreciate being instructed further and more properly.

[btroj]

Yep, Pure lead shows those colors the most. When I see them in a smelt I know I have pretty darn pure lead.

[cbrick]

So would I. What I was told, regarding Marlin Junky's colors question, was that the blue and gold coloration was a product of surface oxidation of alloy or melt constituents. I have seen it most vividly while melting unalloyed lead at elevated temps (800*-850*) to decrease viscosity thermally during casting sequences. The 'colors' disappear upon fluxing, and return slowly if the melt remains exposed to air during the pouring. The colors have had no negative effect during dipper casting for me. I cast at far lower temps (675*-750*) with lead/tin and lead/tin/antimony alloys, due to those mixes being more fluid at those lower temps. This was instruction from 1981, followed by observation and consistent outcomes since that time. If it is metallurgically-unsound information, I would appreciate being instructed further and more properly.

That is correct, oxidation at the surface. Lead alloy will not, cannot gravity separate, you would die of very old age as a bent over white haired boolit caster waiting for that to happen.

Rick

[Recluse]

That's the proper outlook, BTroj--but the pissant perfectionists and the perpetually indignant that hold sway here have largely killed this site for me.

Pretty much says it all for a number of us, Allan.

*Sigh* Sad and true.

We've gone from being a small, cozy little town to a sprawling city with way too many avenues. . . with predictable results.

[Marlin Junky]

*Sigh* Sad and true.

We've gone from being a small, cozy little town to a sprawling city with way too many avenues. . . with predictable results.

Yup...

The site has become a microcosm of the country where bickering is the norm, critical thinking is dismissed and conventional wisdom applauded. I never said anything because I knew it would ruffle feathers (even back then); however, the management is to blame for its recruiting efforts and lazy moderating techniques that followed.

Where's my apology?

MJ

BTW, I'm not discussing this oxidation thing anymore (it's been a gross waste of my time and I'm sorry I inserted input) so y'all just talk among yourselves.

[Rufus28]

Guys i have been casting for a month know and like to thank you all for your advice as the results are showing. Allot of people do not understand how rare this information your are share is. To find books or info on gun smithing and bullet casting is extremely difficult of you are not living in the USA or UK. Here in Africa you rely on the internet to provide. Thanks once again

[olafhardt]

My understanding is that alloys don't gravity separate. I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts.

OK, guys I'll try to explain what I THINK is happening. If you have liquid with a source of heat, you have convection currents bringing liquid up to the top of the pot. You can see this in grease heating up. The hot liquids are exposed to air and can oxidize. These reactions are accelerated by heat. A rule of thumb I heard was the reaction rates double for every 10 degrees Celsius (18 degrees F) you raise the temperature. So, if you raise the temperature to 540 degrees F you have increased the rate of oxidation by 2 raised to the 30th power which is a huge number. If you now raise the temperature to 720 F the rate to 2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2 times what it was at 540 F. These oxides are certainly lighter than lead and float on the surface and create sheen like oil on water. When you flux these oxides are reduced to the original metal if they are reducible by the flux. Lead and tin oxides are, calcium and zinc are not. I have no idea that alloys can not separete by gravity when solubility limits are reached. Somebody said that antimony seperation was the cause of frosting. Anyway these are my thoughts on the sheen on the top of my lead pot. I would love to here your thoughts and criticisms of my ideas. If you think I am an idiot you won't be the first nor will you be the first to think I am right smart.

[btroj]

No, I think you are correct that they are oxides. The blue color is found in pure or nearly pure lead only.