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Thread: H and R misfires

  1. #1
    Boolit Master bearcove's Avatar
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    H and R misfires

    A friend has a 223 that misfires . looks like a light strike on the primer. What do I look for first.
    I'm just the welder, go ask him>

  2. #2
    Boolit Master bearcove's Avatar
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    It's a handi, never had one, how does it break down. I'm aT/C guy so new ground for me
    I'm just the welder, go ask him>

  3. #3
    in Remebrance
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    Couple of options here. You could always send it in, they'll do it right but there is the time factor. If it's new I would definitely do that, they'll send you a paid shipping label for warranty work. Check the firing pin protrusion. Possible hammer spring weakness, easy to get a Wolf replacement. Installation is easier than you might think, disassembly is required. Go to the graybeard site under the H&R forums, there are FAQ that explain dis/reassembly, very easy to do, slave pins are required to reduce use of profanity. You can do a trigger job while you have it down if desired. Only do a very light stoning on sear notches as the case hardening is very thin. I better shut up and let you do your research, I could ramble all day. Love my Handis! GW
    "If you can walk with crowds and keep your virtue,
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  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    CastingFool's Avatar
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    Not familiar with the H&R rifles, but you might try cleaning the action. A friend once bought a .22 Weatherby from another friend, because the rifle would misfire occasionally, specially in cold weather. Turned out that there was some cosmoline or similar material on the firing pin. Once that was removed, the rifle performed flawlessly, regardless of the temp. Just my nickle's worth.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    Another thing to look for is.... If someone has done some trigger work to lighten the pull this can make misfires and light primer strikes. The h&r's use a transfer bar in them to strike the firing pin, in other words the hammer does not hit the firing pin, it hits the transfer bar and this hits the firing pin kind of like a ruger blackhawk, If someone has stoned, lightened, or messed with the trigger pull, this can make the trigger pull lighter but it can also keep the transfer barr from moving all the way up far enough to hit the firing pin and cause the problems you describe.
    One way to test for this is if you hold the trigger all the way back, and pull the hammer back all the way and let it go, if this stops the light strikes and it still has light strikes when you pull the trigger to drop the hammer, this tells you the trigger/transfer bar is not moving up behind the firing pin far enough.
    If the trigger has not been "worked on" and you are getting light strikes I would send it back to have the factory look at it.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Besides basic mechanics of the rifle, might check the ammo. 223, especially pick-up stuff or bulk ammo, could have varying headspace. Or if reloaded, the sizing die could be setting back the shoulder more than the chamber likes.

    Another possibility is a mis-match between primer pocket and primer where the primer is not fully bottomed-out thus absorbing some of the pin strike.

    While it very well could be the rifle, checking the ammo wouldn't hurt.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master
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    What to check:

    1. Broken firing pin -- had it happen once on a Model 158 from the '70's.

    2. Broken transfer bar -- had three or four happen on at least three Model 158's (one .22 Hornet and two .30-30's) from the '70's and '80's and also on newer H&R/NEF shotguns. Last time I needed one I ordered two, if I can just find it when I need it...

    3. Weak mainspring -- never had it happen, but possible.

    Other than that, I would take fouonesix's advice and try a different lot of ammo.

    Definitely make slave pins, and have the instructions printed out or on the screen while you are reassembling the action.

    Robert

  8. #8
    Boolit Master shredder's Avatar
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    Something that happened to my handi rifle comes to mind. It did the light strikes and misfires after I had it for a while. What was happening is that mine had some slop around the firing pin hole. That allowed a tiny bit of primer metal to protrude into the hole, and when the action was opened it shaved a tiny crescent of primer metal off and it stayed in the firing pin hole. After a while these tiny flakes build up. Check it out and see if anything is in the firing pin channel.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master
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    A friend has a 223 that misfires . looks like a light strike on the primer. What do I look for first.
    When was the last time it was cleaned and how thoroughly?
    Regards
    John

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by shredder View Post
    Something that happened to my handi rifle comes to mind. It did the light strikes and misfires after I had it for a while. What was happening is that mine had some slop around the firing pin hole. That allowed a tiny bit of primer metal to protrude into the hole, and when the action was opened it shaved a tiny crescent of primer metal off and it stayed in the firing pin hole. After a while these tiny flakes build up. Check it out and see if anything is in the firing pin channel.
    very interesting. I have the same "issue", but the primer doesn't shave off in my gun. The action simply locks up. I have to pull the hammer and fire on the empty cartridge to break it free, then everything is OK.

    OP, check pin protrusion. That is VERY EASY to change on the handi rifle. Just file the hammer at the engagement point on the transfer bar and you will reduce pin protrusion. File the hammer where it hits the frame and the pin will extend out. If it's within spec, your problem is elsewhere.

    My problems were elsewhere, but checking and adjusting the pin protrusion was too easy not to check immediately.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    I sent one in to H&R recently for a similar problem in .223. They fixed it(an older gun) no charge, improved the trigger pull, and got it back to me right quick. I don't recall what they did but they did replace some of the innards according to the invoice/work order. I paid to mail it to them, not a lot of money. It's also a good opportunity to have an additional barrel fitted if you care to.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Doc_Stihl's Avatar
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    I have an H&R 17 rimfire that will light fire EVERY time if you don't pull the trigger through. If you just barely break the trigger and stop pulling it hits light. If you pull and keep pulling, it fires.
    It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed.

    Theodore Roosevelt

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Stihl View Post
    I have an H&R 17 rimfire that will light fire EVERY time if you don't pull the trigger through. If you just barely break the trigger and stop pulling it hits light. If you pull and keep pulling, it fires.
    Frustrating nevertheless, but that is an H&R design feature rather than malfunction. A full pull is required for the transfer bar to operate. Thank the lawyers...

    Many "misfires" with the H&R or assumed "weak springs" are indeed down to this. Of course, breech loading single shots always work better with r rimmed cartridges than rimless, especially as H&R quality under Remington management hasn't been spotless!

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    I have a 7mm-08 that was FTF as well. The cure was to only neck size the brass. Touching the shoulder= excessive head space
    (like a lot of people these days )

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    I bought a handi in 223. it developed the FTF problem. after trying all the suggested fixes I sent it back to Remington. When it was returned the firing pin was longer the transfer bar was longer so it stayed engaged with the hammer a tid bit longer. If I were you I would return it to the factory. The paperwork that was returned with mine showed all internal parts in the frame were replaced except the parts that locks the bbl in place. All was done at no charge. It now works just fine.
    m

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Longer firing pin needed. Not much but a smidgen.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy

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    Funny ...I just sent my Handi in 357 back today. Had some FTF as well. Checked the firing pin protrusion it seemed kinda short compared to my other firearms. I played around and found that if I put something between the hammer and transfer bar ,then released the hammer, the firing pin protruded farther...... Whiterabbit In post #10 gave a good account of this, as well as a fix. Anyway the guys at customer service gave me a shipping label and a promise to get it fixed.

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    I had light strikes on my 38-55 B.C. I did change the hammer spring to a wolf HD but now and then a light primer strike.I will say the B.C. has about 800 rounds threw it from 2008 never had any problems with ignition.
    I change primers change the hammer spring then decide not to play with it any longer I did return it to Remington.I will say turn around time 6 days they change all internals and the gun shoot fine only problem now it a 4 1/2lb pull compared to the factory 3 lbs when I first purchased the rifle.I will say the 4 plus pounds breaks clean like glass ,I am not going to mess with it.
    I will say my 30-06 a week later I ran into the same problem light strikes,the made in 2005 again had a 3 lbs trigger pull .I also return it they reworked all parts got it back work perfect again 4 1/2 trigger breaks clean.
    I thought by the time I by all the parts it would be cheaper just to return it flat rate box USPS 5.99

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    My uncle has one that misfires. His solution- change ammunition. It doesn't like cheap ammo, but it works fine with other stuff.
    Anything that produces some sort of an explosion, can't be all bad.


    44minimum

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    Also make sure your friend is shooting commercial .223 and not surplus 5.56. The military stuff has harder primers.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
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LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check