Family Feud

[PbHurler]

Hey Fred, Great Minds?

[btroj]

It isn't the noob questions, it is the questions that tell me that a guy hasn't even tried to find an answer on his own. I will help you but I won't do it for you.
I was fortunate, I learned from a guy who had decades of experience. I learned slow and easy. I learned mostly by reading many books and manuals. I learned what each die does what headspace was, and all about the numerous safety checks. This knowledge was valuable at various points as it allowed me later on to problem solve my ammo and determine why something did or didn't work.

Asking questions is good. Make sure the question makes sense and shows some effort on your part. Asking if 4831 will work in your 9mm tells me you haven't got a clue about powder burn rates and I'm not going to answer. Big difference between asking which is better for 9 mm, red dot or unique, or asking what load to use in your new 9 mm. One shows some effort to narrow it down to a couple choices, the other says I want the quick out.

You needn't have years of experience to ask questions here, just a desire to learn. We are very kind to noobs who want to learn and grow as casters and reloaders. We don't tend to do well with people who want to be spoon fed and lack any real desire to learn on their own.

You learn more at the casting, loading, and shooting bench than you do at the computer desk!

[DRNurse1]

+1BTROJ, but the more youthful among us learned that 'give me the answer' mentality somewhere and have a hard time shaking it. The fall out from answering them (because you are tired of the question) is they do not learn the process, and cannot fix their mistakes nor recognize their errors.

[WILCO]

and can I shoot this boolit without a gas check. Or not having any loading manuals and coming here looking for instant load data gratification.

Yeah, that's a big turn off for me. I found the solution though. I simply log out.

[cainttype]

I understood the OP's point to be about regulars feuding, not noobies. A healthy discussion between different viewpoints with tangible points made to support each opinion creates a scenario where others might garnish a little insight, or further their understanding of the subject matter. Being concise and friendly carries far more weight than long-winded blanket statements, or snippets offered up with sarcasm. Snide remarks have no place in intelligent conversation... "You can't teach a man anything, if he thinks he knows too much already".

[44man]

I don't know about this. Seems as if the old timers have great mutual respect for each other because each did the actual work and try to pass on knowledge.
Seems as if trouble starts at other forums and winds up here for answers that can't be accepted because so and so said this or that.
It is always based on trial and error, work at it, test everything, never, ever quote anyone.
But we have to have compassion for the new guy too. I just can't ignore them because we are responsible to steer them along the right and safe path.
Seems some are against certain questions. True a new guy needs to read and learn but there is confusion. Face it, it can be hard. The new generation can't read and understand and will also not understand what we post. Half of what the old timers say is not read or understood.
Loading can be easy but reloading is a specific thing.
We will see the same questions over and over and over. But those that ask are just in the dark.
Go to the store and give the amount at the register so your change is a bill instead of a pocket of change. they are lost. It is the sad education system we have. We are teachers that outstrip schools.
Loading is like sticking a kid at a table saw and telling him to make a cabinet first time. He can't follow the book that tells him each step. The shop teacher is there for a reason.
Remember the apprentice at a gun maker long ago. Took years before he was allowed to make his own.
We need to help and yes the old timers do get tired of repeating but this site is to steer and help.
Please don't get angry.

[waco]

We'll said 44Man.

[kbstenberg]

2+ for 44man. I'm still lost!!!

[MT Gianni]

So is Unique still a dirty powder or not?

[Love Life]

So is Unique still a dirty powder or not?

Only if you're using it to shoot boolits designed for a gas check without a gas check.

[HNSB]

When I ask questions, I try to research first or work to find a solution, but sometimes I am clueless about where to start... I wish I had a local mentor who I could observe and learn from, but I don't.

That's why threads like Waco's about PC'd bullets in his .308 are so great. I get to see how someone else goes through the process and where they run into snags, and what the advice is from other people.

There are also a few good stickies that go through process. The search function is not real helpful there though...

[PS Paul]

I miss Jim.

Sigh.......

[snuffy]

I don't get it!? Are we supposed to ignore when someone makes a wrong statement, not point out his mistake? When does that turn into an argument? And just what is wrong with a good old argument?

I offer opinions based on my experience, coming from 50 years of reloading, and casting boolits. I also worked in a gunshop repairing guns for 6 years. If I offer advice distilled from my experience, then it's ignored or contradicted, fine, at least the idea is out there.

Is the world becoming so PC that we can't have differing view points and opinions? Then we should all pack up and go home.

[GaryN]

I miss Jim.

Sigh.......

Me too!

[waco]

[QUOTE=snuffy;2509418]I don't get it!? Are we supposed to ignore when someone makes a wrong statement, not point out his mistake? When does that turn into an argument? And just what is wrong with a good old argument?

I offer opinions based on my experience, coming from 50 years of reloading, and casting boolits. I also worked in a gunshop repairing guns for 6 years. If I offer advice distilled from my experience, then it's ignored or contradicted, fine, at least the idea is out there.

Is the world becoming so PC that we can't have differing view points and opinions? Then we should all pack up and go home.[/QUOTE

No. I'm not saying that at all. It was just my observation that there has been a lot of "out of the ordinary" bickering around here lately. At least it has seemed that way to me.

Not that it's a big deal, or a bad thing per say. I was just pointing out what I thought I saw.

It caught me off guard a bit because in the four years I have been here, this is one of the main things that separates this board from all the others.

This place feels like home to me. Lots of close family.

We ARE different from other boards, and I, for one, would like to keep it that way.
Waco

[xacex]

I've been a member now for about 2-3 years. I am still a newbie at this, but I have learned a ton in that time, and the two or three years I lurked before I joined. There does seem to be an uptick of bickering, along with a large number of new members this year. I have noticed some of the veterans that know more than I will ever learn stepping back a bit, and not answering the same question after it has been asked for the 4th or 5th time in a month. I don't blame them, but I get the frustration now.
Collectively there is thousands of years of knowledge in the art of casting, and shooting here on this forum. There are some that are very knowledgeable in specific scientific focus such as physics, metallurgy,forensics,polymers, smithing, or just fun folks like Love Life. That is why I joined. I like that there is a community that has the knowledge put together to make anyone a great boolit caster, and maybe cast shooter, and the entertainment is nice once and a while.
Sometimes I feel like I am regurgitating information that I learned here, tried, and passed on. But, that is how this site functions. If you have new idea one of the veterans here will perk up their ears and join in. If you are like me you get to answer all of the questions that have been answered before. I am not to the point I get frustrated yet, but I could see me being there in another 10-15 years. The tacta-whatever you call it doesn't bother me. I have black rifles too. I just don't like people putting down other members ideas of this, or that based on opinion vs proven results. I know, it has happened to me, and I reacted. It is hard not to when you try your best, and it is not good enough for someone else. They have to say something negative instead of giving constructive criticism and suggestions on making it better, and the bickering begins. I have taken a back seat to posting results on what I am working on because of it, and I have seen others do the same. Childish sometimes, but I own what I do, and what I post.
There are many facets to this place. In some ways it is like a family. You choose who you listen to, understand there are the drunk uncles, up tight brother in laws,stupid cousins, and grampa's who will know more than you and I will ever know in our life. I just come here to have fun, learn, and share life with a collections of people share a hobby with me. The bickering gets ignored unless it is directed towards me.

[snoopy]

You learn more at the casting, loading, and shooting bench than you do at the computer desk![/QUOTE]

Well said and I'll throw out my.02. Being out of the shooting sport for a long time due to various life events and absolutely new to reloading, casting, muzzleloading, etc. I have a lot of questions. I am not a part of the instant gratification generation. A lot of manuals are not directed at someone with absolutely no knowledge at all of the subject. Ideally it would be nice to have an experienced reloading [etc] buddy who's free time corresponded mith mine to glean information from, but I dont. EXCEPT for here. The internet and forums like this are wonderful resources, combining published data with real life experience of people that "have been there done that". I've seen several references to teachers' here, and having much experience in other subjects, I've learned that patience is key. How many times has someone cut the wheels the wrong way trying to learn how to back a 53ft trailer into a parking spot? morethan I can count. Do I berate them or ignore them, NO, encourage them, tell them their mistake and how they can improve those skills by using tricks that I have learned over the years. It can be frustrating, but if you can put youself in the other person's place for just a moment, maybe take a breath, [before you respond] then you can make a difference. Personally, I would rather be asked something for the umpteenth time, than for that person to assume something and end up getting hurt or hurting someone else. Wouldn't You?

[captaint]

I read a long thread yesterday - something like " I'm looking for an auto pistol in .45ACP. What do you guys think? " Said to myself, this is gonna be great !! I read the whole thing and was laughing some of the way. Yes, there was a little angst and many opinions. But you know what?
If you pay attention, there's a lot to be learned here. I truly enjoyed the whole thing. Some of the old friends here have WAY more experience than me. You people are great !!
Jeez guys, it's just opinions........ Mike

[randyrat]

Or ignore the question and have another cup of coffee......I don't care how stupid the question is, sometimes they just need to be pointed in the right direction.
You want questions wait till you have Grand kids OH for the the love of GOD.....Why grandpa do you do that,why, why,why Grandma said I can jump on the couch, Are you mad grand pa, why are you mad, are you gonna die, when, where do you go,do you poop in your pants....On and on

[btroj]

Only if you're using it to shoot boolits designed for a gas check without a gas check.

Would adding a toilet bowl ring to my lube make it cleaner?