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[btroj]

In the end it is up to each of us to decide where to spend our money.

I will not buy an other Lee 2 cav mould but the 6 cav just work well for me. I will say that I probably own far fewer moulds than most of the others here with 30 years of casting experience. I generally use a single, maybe a couple, moulds for a certain caliber. I don't own 10 357 moulds.

Like Gear said, buy the right tool for the job. As long as it does what YOU need it to do then it is good enough, isn't it?

I have no desire to try and convince Rick to use a Lee mould and I am sure he doesn't care if I do. Long as we are each satisfied with the results then what does it matter?

Lee fills a valuable niche, they make low cost, decent moulds. Not great moulds, but functional. I have had some great results with some of their designs, just wish the manufacture was a bit better. Lyman makes a nice mould but they keep changing designs, make them undersized for my guns, and don't make the designs I like. RCBS makes nice moulds but the block size is ridiculous. Those huge blocks for a 2 cav 22 mould? Too tiring for me to really like using them.

Buy what you like and use it with pride.

[cbrick]

In the end it is up to each of us to decide where to spend our money.

Has anyone posted otherwise?

Rick

[6bg6ga]

As I posted earlier in this thread, you've never seen a single post of mine negative about LEE's reloading tools. What you did read of mine is that I have bought my last LEE mold and of that I can assure you.

You have also never seen me post that anyone else shouldn't buy & use LEE molds. I really couldn't care less, have at it if that's what winds your clock. It is however quite amusing to watch the LEE lovers get all wrapped around the axle if anyone makes a post that isn't glowing praise for LEE molds, anyone that isn't singing that praise from the mountain tops is a basher. Perhaps amusing is too weak of a word.

Rick

Your absolutely right in that you have never posted telling someone not to buy or use Lee molds. I however am different in that I have tried them and I do not like their quality and I will state that I do believe there are better quality molds out there and people should consider purchasing them and not the Lee brand.

[jmort]

I have seen posts such as "All Lee products show be thrown away, they are junk." No specific criticism of a particular item. That is what I object to. I have molds from Accurate, Heavy Metal, Lee Precision and others. All work well for me. As with most, I not fixated with what others buy/use. Categorical denunciations without specific criticism as useless and harmful when a manufacturer/business sponsors this site. Specific criticism is useful, such as the point that the Lee Precision sizers can be "under-sizers" and need to be opened-up.

[cbrick]

Since you quoted me I have to ask what that may have to do with me? Hhmmm . . . I have never said any such a thing yet you quoted me. I did say that I will never buy another LEE mold and I won't so how do you translate that into all LEE is junk and should be thrown away or LEE sizers (which I recommend BTW) need to be opened up? Hhmmm . . .

Rick

[btroj]

The Lee push thru sizers are wonderful. I prefer they come in a bit undersized, I can easily make them what I want. Much easier to make them bigger than it is to make em smaller!

If I read Rick correctly he has no use for Lee moulds but isn't generalizing that everything they make is junk. I can somewhat agree with it. I like some of their moulds but not all. They make a great hand held primer tool.

It comes down to a Ford/Chevy argument.

[jmort]

"Since you quoted me I have to ask what that may have to do with me?"

Your point is well taken.

[snuffy]

I always look at the engineering and features of a product before I consider purchasing it. Take into consideration a Lee reloading press for example...
Its cheaply made,very crude, and prone to breakage. It will serve those that don't wish to reload 10K round in their lifetime and may do so without breaking after the warranty period is over. Spend more money for a well engineered product and get something that can either be sold after I'm in the ground or passed on to my son. As a child I watched my father purchase something of lesser quality than what he actually wanted. I watched him go from the lower end of the quality spectrum to the mid level product and then finally to the product he actually wanted to purchase the first go around the product he didn't think he could justify. The final cost for the three different items far exceeded the cost of the better higher priced item in the long run. From this I learned to either whip out my credit card and purchase what I really wanted or to save until I reached the monitary value and then purchase the item. As a result I own good reloading equipment. Some is used and most is new. What I have will probably not break in the next lifetime or two. Getting back to the lee presses... In my opinion I will not own one based on the design and the quality. I played with one that was setup at the gun store and loaded some ammunition and to be frank I was afraid I was going to break it and have to purchase it.

You obviously weren't using the Lee classic cast press. The challenger press is most likely what you were using. The classic cast is every bit as strong as the famous RCBS rockchucker. Made in the US of A from scrapped railroad rails, with it all steel linkage, it is very solid.

Another rock solid press from Lee is the classic turret. It too is solid cast iron with the steel linkage. It is the ONLY auto indexing turret made by anybody!

FIND the following;
1. Collet type neck sizer----- only from Lee.
2. Collet type factory crimp die,(rifle)----only from Lee.
3. Auto indexing turret---Again only from Lee.
4 First hand held priming tool---first auto dispensing hand held priming tool--Lee!
5. Trim to length pilot-cutter- and shell holder single caliber--Lee.
6. Universal expander die-Lee.
7. Disc type powder measure-Lee
8. Aluminum bullet molds WITH handles(2 cav)--Lee.
9. Push-though bullet size dies with a way to hold the sized boolits in a hopper-Lee.
10. Simple die lock rings without the need for lock screws, (dadgummit where is that confounded allen wrench!). Lee.
11. Simple, effective lead furnaces @ 1/3 the price of most others.

There's a couple more I'm sure, that are Only made by Lee. New innovations are coming. Lee upgraded the 2 cav molds to use alignment pins just like those on their 6 cav molds. No more formed/extruded AL. pieces, with sideways pins that sometimes fall out.

That said, my bench is a mixture of RCBS, Redding, Lyman, Hornady and some Herters. The on ly failure I've had so far,(50+yrs.) is the universal shell holder for the case spinner. Then, I'm sure it is operator error.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Hmm. I started with an RCBS Ammomaster reloading kit. Still have and use every part of it except the loading block that I donated to my Uncle along with a 'care pack' kit I put together with a Lee loader to get him started reloading for his .45 Colt revolvers. Still use the Lee hand primer and shellholders my stepdad gave me in 1989. I own four Lee progressives and three turrets. I think it's kinda funny to look at the dies I use, though. A Lee Collet sizing die next to an RCBS expanding die, a Forster Micrometer in-line seater die followed by a Lee FCD is typical for my rifle turret heads. I like Lee pistol-caliber seating dies because a .44 Magnum case filled with epoxy putty perfectly fits them and makes a straight-line, boolit-specific seating punch. Cheap and better than any other die maker's .45 dies on the planet. Then there's the Sinclair neck sizers followed by a Lee rifle charging die withe a pistol powder-thru-Expander spud in it, Lee universal expander with a 5/8-18 bolt turned to make a "real" expander, a Forster in-line seater, and lastly an RCBS or Lee crimping die (for fast work with .30-30 or .35 Remington plinking ammo). I can't tell you exactly how many Lee rifle sizing dies I've modified to fit my chambers exactly for minimal sizing of the necks and bodies so my brass is "fireformed" but identical each loading, but it's close to a dozen. I'm an equipment ***** and a cheapskate, but I'll save and spend the money where it counts when it matters. The trick is knowing WHEN it MATTERS.

A good and wise friend of mine once commented about cheap tools: You don't always need the BEST tool, you just need the CORRECT tool. Sometimes you DO need the very best that can be had (Snap-On Torx sockets, Matco splined extractors, and Guhring Cobalt drill bits come to mind), but not always.

If it does the job, doesn't cost a fortune, and doesn't leave blisters, it's for me.

Gear

great idea for homemade internals for a Lee seater die. Thanks for the idea.

[Smoke4320]

Way back in 1977 I started reloading with the original Lee loader and hammer.. probably loaded 200 30-06 rds with that hammer/loader over the next 2 years before I graduated to a RCBS Rock chucker.. Without the lee loader I probably would have NEVER started down this long satisfying road.. to this day almost all my primers are seated with a lee hand primer, a few dies are lee with RCBS lock rings, probably have 10 lee molds and several other lee tools
like all companys they make some good and some bad items
Would not have a lee scale or powder measure but that's just me

[jcwit]

Would not have a lee scale or powder measure but that's just me

Funny, but the Lee Powder Measure has been proven to be one of the most accurate mass produced measures out their.

Note:
http://www.sniperforums.com/forum/ca...cy-thread.html
http://www.sniperforums.com/forum/ca...cy-thread.html

[Love Life]

I do like their perfect powder measure. It just works, and works accurately. I also like their autodisk measures for certain powders, and they even work on a Dillon 550B.

[JeffinNZ]

Rick certainly makes some interesting observations. I wonder if the quick defences of Lee [products is a factor of supporting the underdog? Certainly a lot of folk are grateful for the cost effective start in loading. Of course Lee have never claimed to be the best so it's a mute point saying they are not. Case in point, Lee moulds NEVER feature in the winning results of CBA matches but very few CB shooters shoot matches so.... Anyways, interesting discussion.

[geargnasher]

Never claimed to be the best? Who, Richard Lee? HAHAHAHHAA! That guy is so full of himself and his best-o-everything products it makes me want to vomit sometimes. Just reading through Modern Reloading is an exercise in self-control to not throw the book against a brick wall sometimes. BUT........the innovative, inexpensive and very, VERY effective products have done more to facilitate my casting and reloading than all others, combined. Lee has a few of the WORST products I've used (zip trim, scale, and zip trim come to mind) but also some of the very best to be had at any price (Classic Turret and rifle FCD come to mind), and a lot of nice, affordable, serviceable tools in-between.

I keep waiting for Lee Precision to invent a press-mounted, nose-first, push-through luber/sizer that would be priced at about $79. I'm not asking for it even to be auto-injection like a Star, just a horizontal hollow-stick reservoir with a big T-handle would do, but I'm sure Lee could come up with something that bumped a lube pump at the top of the ram stroke via a sliding sleeve if they wanted to. If they can invent a case feeder and Pro Autodisc that works as well as they do a lube-sizer should be a snap. Maybe the holdup is they can't make one that would hold up out of plastic and pot metal.

Gear

[Recluse]

I always look at the engineering and features of a product before I consider purchasing it. Take into consideration a Lee reloading press for example...
Its cheaply made,very crude, and prone to breakage. It will serve those that don't wish to reload 10K round in their lifetime and may do so without breaking after the warranty period is over.

This kind of pure, unadulterated bravo-sierra is why my Ignore List probably should have a coffee maker and porta-potty.

Anyone who has been around Cast Boolits for any length of time knows I am most definitely NOT a Lee choirboy, especially after my experience with the Classic Cast. They made good on it and it now works exactly as advertised and how it should and it is still--albeit, reluctantly--on my loading bench.

However, the "prone to breakage" and "for anybody who doesn't want to reload (more than) 10K rounds in their lifetime" garbage is simply sheer ignorant prejudice spoken out of intentional delusion.

My own Lee Challenger has loaded well over 30K rounds of necked ammunition--more than the Rockchucker I gave to a guy I served in the sandbox with in '91 who came home with two broken legs and who I taught to reload during his recovery period. I gave him a lot of stuff off my bench of all colors, including Lee, and he still has it all and has used it a LOT.

I have a Classic Cast single stage and a Classic Turret. Neither one of them will break in my lifetime, my son-in-law's lifetime, or my grandsons' lifetimes. That is not to say that I was pleased with the QC that didn't exist when they came out of the box, but quality control and engineering and breakage or separate components.

I've sent three RCBS .223 sizing dies back for stuck cases. Have never sent back a Lee or Hornady .223 die. So do I rag on RCBS and call them junk? No way. Have too much of their stuff.

I had to send my first 550 back to Dillon because something had been machined incorrectly. Do I rag on Dillon? No way (only about price ).

I broke a Hornady collet bullet puller and got ALL kinds of upset. Wrote Steve Hornady and was mad and made a complete A-double-S out of myself because it seems I had bought a bullet puller that had been returned to the retailer, mistakenly restocked as it had a missing component to it. AND. . . had I read the damn instructions, I would've discovered that PDQ and would not have broken the handle, etc etc. I wrote a heartfelt apology to Steve Hornady and even posted it publicly here.

Lee has stuff I flat just do not like. They have stuff that I flat marvel over the engineering genius of. My primary and number one gripe about Lee is the lack of consistent quality control and the fact that when you contact them, they treat you as though you are a novice reloader. Dillon, RCBS, Hornady and Redding certainly do not treat you like that.

But to say that Lee presses are prone to breakage and only for folks who have no intention of loading any decent amounts of ammo is about as ignorant of a thing as I have ever read on the internet, and that's saying a lot. Hell, I've got over 100K in 9mm and 38 Special on an old Pro1000 that is being retired for a soon-to-come 650. My Classic Turret already has over 10K just in .45 ACP and .44 Special on it. I do not see any breakage in the Classic Cast single stage press in the next three lifetimes.

There's an American Legion buddy of mine in west Texas who has over 50K of .223 and .308 on his little Lee Challenger.

Some folks can tear up an anvil and ruin a crowbar given how they treat and handle tools. I grew up on a ranch. If you mistreated or neglected or abused your tools, there was hell to pay. For one, money was always tight and there wasn't money to keep replacing tools because someone had a mentality of "Hell, if they're worth anything at all, they'll stand up to any abuse I can give them." Two, if you broke some of your tools and you were on horseback several miles from the nearest line shack or house, it was a long ride back simply to get another set of cutters. And three, most of the tools were hand-me-downs of several generations. You treated those tools with respect and took care of them and in turn, they lasted.

SMH. . .

I do like their perfect powder measure. It just works, and works accurately. I also like their autodisk measures for certain powders, and they even work on a Dillon 550B.

Love the disk measure and my perfect powder measure is still my number one go-to measure. I like my Redding, had a Hornady and an RCBS and traded them both off as neither one would throw the variety of powders as consistently accurate as my little $20 Lee would. Granted, I've had the thing for thirty years and it is very well broken in and smooth. Don't know how the new ones are but I do know mine is the absolute champ of all the loading benches I have.

Rick certainly makes some interesting observations. I wonder if the quick defences of Lee [products is a factor of supporting the underdog? Certainly a lot of folk are grateful for the cost effective start in loading. Of course Lee have never claimed to be the best so it's a mute point saying they are not. Case in point, Lee moulds NEVER feature in the winning results of CBA matches but very few CB shooters shoot matches so.... Anyways, interesting discussion.

I remember Rick had a major issue with Redding some years back and at the time, he was seriously considering swearing off all Redding equipment. But, I never recalled him saying all Redding stuff was junk. The issue was over QC for a certain press and an errant customer service rep, if I recall correctly.

Bottom line? Lee definitely has a place in the reloading and casting world. I like the company which is why I reserve the right to grumble mightily about their on again/off again QC. And as a retired advertising and marketing executive who carefully nurtured many a brand's reputation and image for many years, I agree with DOB (Dean of Balls) about no company should be so thin-skinned about implied or otherwise criticism. The feedback some companies get from the post-doctorate experience found here at Cast Boolits would cost them dearly if they were to consign that research.

As many have said, Lee's price point offers a tremendous amount of reloaders and casters an entry point into the hobby. For many, Lee's equipment is all they will ever need and it will serve them well over the years. Other reloaders and casters may demand a better level of "fit and finish" that would challenge Lee's ability to meet entry-level price points. And others are fanatically loyal to their own preferred colors and brands.

That's what makes our world keep spinnin' around.

[WILCO]

Never claimed to be the best? Who, Richard Lee? HAHAHAHHAA! That guy is so full of himself and his best-o-everything products it makes me want to vomit sometimes. Just reading through Modern Reloading is an exercise in self-control to not throw the book against a brick wall sometimes.

WoW Gear! That was really difficult for me to read. I really enjoyed Richard Lee's book. It's well written and seemed as if I was spending time with an old friend. The very first reloading bench and cartridge I put together, was done under his written tutelage. One last thing about Richard Lee: He makes it very clear in his book, that he's promoting the products of LEE Precision. Seems like a natural thing to do since he founded the company.

Bottom line? Lee definitely has a place in the reloading and casting world.

+1 on that Recluse.

[Rooster59]

All this because someone noticed the Lee banner ad wasn't appearing for a period and speculated on the reason?!

Makes some of the posters here seem a bit like the ranchers in the opening scene of "Hang Em High".

[Bad Water Bill]

I am with you 100% JD

Perhaps I should send him a "Herters Reloading Manual" that has been sitting on my bench for OVER 40 years. Now there were 2 brothers he should have met.

In my conversations with MR Lee over the years I never felt like I was being talked down to. More like 2 folks sitting at a campfire having a good old fashion talk.

AND what other company can offer a complete reloading setup (that will NOT break the bank) for a beginner?

When we started tinkering with cars etc most of us went to the local hardware store for our tools. As we LEARNED more we discovered Craftsman,Snapon etc and started educating ourselves.

We never complained how the local hardware store ripped us off but were glad that we had the opportunity to find out for ourselves weather pulling wrenches was for us or not and at an affordable price.

MOST of us were smart enough to realize we were not going to get a Rolex for a Timex price tag.

No I did not get started in reloading using Lee stuff but have recommended their products to many many new folks and will continue to do so. .

[ubetcha]

I too have a sea of orange,red and green on my bench. I started reloading in the early 80's and started out with Lee. I even shot on a pistol league with Dick Lee. I have had zero problems with any Lee products. The perfect powder measure works great. The only thing I don't like about it is the flimsy stand. Too much flexing for me. But it works and works correctly. I also don't care for the powder scale. My brother has one and he likes it. I think is too hard to set properly. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean it's junk. I have a RCBS 505 and a Hornady electronic. To each his own.
I need to edit this post about the powder measure. It's not the stand but the body it's self.Regardless,it still works

[jcwit]

Never claimed to be the best? Who, Richard Lee? HAHAHAHHAA! That guy is so full of himself and his best-o-everything products it makes me want to vomit sometimes. Just reading through Modern Reloading is an exercise in self-control to not throw the book against a brick wall sometimes.

Ya, he toots his own horn but then I never walked into a McDonalds and saw signs telling me how much better the burgers were at Burger King either.