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Thread: Old School 45 Colt loading

  1. #41
    Boolit Master


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    I have to agree with BruceB. There are times I load for pleasure, performance and satisfaction and times I just need to make ammunition.

    The purpose of the ammo is high on my list of how to load it. Loads for my hunting carry pistol, a Blackhawk in .45 Colt, are hand crafted one load at a time on a Rock Chucker as are my .44 Mag loads for a 14" Contender. I have a .45 Colt toolhead but it's been years since I used it. I bought some Hornady XTPs to put hogs down with but the cast boolits seem to work every bit as well so prefer to shoot my own boolits even if they cost the same. Besides, the cast boolit cartridges just "look right" in the drop belt rig that Springfield made for me.

    Most of my centerfire rifle ammo is loaded the same way, one at a time, except for the kind of .223 you might want to stockpile and is loaded on a Dillon 550 until the parts to load it on a 650 arrive. Hunting and competition .223 is loaded on the RC.

    When it comes to USPSA pistol match ammo, it is simply "manufactured" on a 650 with a case feeder at 900 rounds per hour. It's purpose driven and the purpose is to have enough for matches and practice. Dillons aren't the only thing. They're just another means to a different end.

    David
    Sometimes life taps you on the shoulder and reminds you it's a one way street. Jim Morris

  2. #42
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I strive for simplicity with my reloading activity, so the Dillon or other full-on progressives haven't arrived here--and likely won't. I don't like for there to be too many things going on at once when the machine handle gets cranked. Like Bruce B, I don't miss the Lee Loaders very much--but I do have a few tools from them still in use (case mouth flaring punches). I never owned a Lyman 310. My two reloading presses are a Rock Chucker and a Ponsness-Warren P-200, and MEC 600 Jrs in my shotshell gauges. The P-200 is much like the 600 Jr., a turret arrangement where the shell/case is moved from station to station. The trick to getting production numbers from either system is to have componentry poised and ready to save motion. 200 rounds of metallic ammo is possible per hour, and 150 rounds of shotshells if your ingredients are staged correctly. I guess the watchword here is to facilitate production on my own terms.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  3. #43
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Well, here we are in the "Casting and Reloading Hand Tools" Forum, and we finally get a great thread going about the use of a 310 Tool (the quintessential hand reloading tool) and a bunch of naysayers come on and tell us that if we aren't using a bright blue progressive tool to load a bajillion rounds an hour we are wasting time and don't know what reloading is all about. My question for them is, "What the heck are you doing reading this part of the forum anyway?" There are all sorts of topics in other headings, so why argue in the hand tool heading against hand tools? I for one am very happy to see an active and informative thread that actually fits this heading appearing here. JMHO, of course, but I think Char-Gar did a good thing to start this thread.

    Froggie

    PS I think I'll pull out my old nickel plated #3 tool this afternoon and load some 32 S&W Longs while I'm "iced in."
    "It aint easy being green!"

  4. #44
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Frog View Post
    Well, here we are in the "Casting and Reloading Hand Tools" Forum, and we finally get a great thread going about the use of a 310 Tool (the quintessential hand reloading tool) and a bunch of naysayers come on and tell us that if we aren't using a bright blue progressive tool to load a bajillion rounds an hour we are wasting time and don't know what reloading is all about. My question for them is, "What the heck are you doing reading this part of the forum anyway?" There are all sorts of topics in other headings, so why argue in the hand tool heading against hand tools? I for one am very happy to see an active and informative thread that actually fits this heading appearing here. JMHO, of course, but I think Char-Gar did a good thing to start this thread.

    Froggie

    PS I think I'll pull out my old nickel plated #3 tool this afternoon and load some 32 S&W Longs while I'm "iced in."
    Well, so folks get the old school reloading thing and some do not. I don't get the Dillon thing, so different folks have different ways of doing things.

    If a fellow isn't impressed with the 310 tool, try this gizmo. It loads 38 Specials just as neat as your please. Not progressive, but lots of fun.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  5. #45
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Potter? or Beldng & Mull?

  6. #46
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Outpost 75

    Belding and Mull 26. Works like a champ! Bullet seating and crimping is accomplished with the straight line die sitting in front of the tool. The later models had a seating die that went on the tool. This tool only neck sizes like the Lyman 310, but it is a little easier on arthritic hands to use. Mounted on the 2X4 I can use it at my desk. No need even to clamp the 2X4 down. Case mouth belling is accomplished by pushing or tapping the case onto he horn on the back of the tool. Sorta crude, but it works. Here is a pic of the horn.

    I started a new thread on "Old School 38 Special loading" featuring this tool. I thought it would educate some, entertain some, and irritate a few, but any way it falls I am happy with the results.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  7. #47
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Mike...When I got started the Lee loader was just on the scene (or soon thereafter), but I never gave it a try. I was enthralled with the speed and ammo I could produce with My Pacific Super C. I know..sorta funny now. So, I do know where the Dillonites are coming from, in a round about way.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  8. #48
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgt.mike View Post
    While I don't have a 310 or some of these fine old tooling, I do have and use the single stage presses Pacific, Lymans. Simple is always better in multiple locations and pleasure of the reloader. The original Lee loader is just a great concept on par with the 310 Thong tool, which was the Cadillac of the day.
    Hey Sgt Mike... when you get tired of fooling with that worn out old powder measure you just got, maybe we can work out a trade. I've got a bunch of 310 stuff to spare that I can swap.

    Your buddy the Frog
    "It aint easy being green!"

  9. #49
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I very much appreciate the old-school tooling, though my methods are a blended mid-point between pure handtool work and state-of-the-art cartridge making.

    There are a few of the modern developments that leave me cold. I mentioned my preference against full-on progressive loading above, but another "upgrade" that I DETEST is the taper-crimp seating die. IF you plan to taper crimp, SEAT FULLY FIRST--THEN taper crimp. This goes double for cast bullet loading. I am beginning to lose affection for some of the lube-free pistol caliber sizer dies, especially the RCBS tungsten-carbide items. Most of these do WAY too much sizing, which is often heavily expanded (though not enough) by the following expander die. These dies "assume" use of jacketed bullets with a vengeance, and in a couple calibers (44 Magnum and 45 Colt) I have resorted to steel sizer dies to prevent over-working of my brass cases--which are hard to replace and expensive when found. Undersized expander spuds are another of my pet peeves, again a biased selection skewed toward the red-coated poser bullets.

    Rant off.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  10. #50
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9.3X62AL View Post
    ...I am beginning to lose affection for some of the lube-free pistol caliber sizer dies, especially the RCBS tungsten-carbide items. Most of these do WAY too much sizing, which is often heavily expanded (though not enough) by the following expander die. These dies "assume" use of jacketed bullets with a vengeance, and in a couple calibers (44 Magnum and 45 Colt) I have resorted to steel sizer dies to prevent over-working of my brass cases--...
    I have found the same problem when using carbide dies. Especially in the 45 long Colt, the resulting cartridge appears to be bottle necked. Not so much with the 38 Special.
    Knowledge I take to my grave is wasted.

    I prefer to use cartridges born before I was.

    Success doesn't make me happy, being happy is what allows me to be successful.

  11. #51
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9.3X62AL View Post
    I very much appreciate the old-school tooling, though my methods are a blended mid-point between pure handtool work and state-of-the-art cartridge making.

    There are a few of the modern developments that leave me cold. I mentioned my preference against full-on progressive loading above, but another "upgrade" that I DETEST is the taper-crimp seating die. IF you plan to taper crimp, SEAT FULLY FIRST--THEN taper crimp. This goes double for cast bullet loading. I am beginning to lose affection for some of the lube-free pistol caliber sizer dies, especially the RCBS tungsten-carbide items. Most of these do WAY too much sizing, which is often heavily expanded (though not enough) by the following expander die. These dies "assume" use of jacketed bullets with a vengeance, and in a couple calibers (44 Magnum and 45 Colt) I have resorted to steel sizer dies to prevent over-working of my brass cases--which are hard to replace and expensive when found. Undersized expander spuds are another of my pet peeves, again a biased selection skewed toward the red-coated poser bullets.

    Rant off.
    When the tungsten carbide sizing dies first came on to the scene I thought they were the greatest thing since sliced bread. After several decades of use, I fell out of love with them and hunted up some vintage RCBS steel dies. These dies size the cases way less, promote longer case life and I believe give better accuracy as the rounds don't lay in the bottom of the charge holes with the bullets having an upward angle to hit the cylinder throat.

    I now have good steel sizing dies (with appropriate redundancy for things that are not being made any more) in 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 44 Special, 44 Magnum, 45 Colt and 45 ACP.

    I have also accumulated the old Lyman Shell Resizer hand FL sizing dies in all of the above calibers as well. These also give properly dimensioned sizing cases, albeit at a slow rate. I use a cheapo Harbor Freight 1 ton arbor press to do the work.

    I do understand that there are now dual carbide ring sizing dies around that replicate what the old steel sizers did. But, I fail to understand why I should pay big bucks for a die that does what it's ancestors did, just to avoid case lubrication. That makes no sense to me.

    As anybody who has even a slight knowledge of my habits and predilections know I do not use progress reloaders. So many the high dollar dual crimp sizers have some utility in those infernal machines, but that is just a guess on my part.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  12. #52
    Boolit Master Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I own a couple of 310 tools with dies for .45 Colt, .44WCF, and .45/70. I bought them just to have, just in case. However, back in 1985, while stationed in Germany, I ordered a Huntington Hand Press that used standard die sets and shell holders. I have reloaded thousands of .45 ACP, .45 Colt and several hundred .45-60WCF's while sitting in my room watching my TV or listening to my tapes or DVD's. Yes I do own an RCBS Rock Chucker and a 550b Dillon, but when the temps rise to over 80 degrees of drop into the 30's or below I don't go into my shed unless it's to get some tool or part. I hate working in a sauna or a freezer.
    Listen! Do you hear it. The roar of cannons, the screams of the dying! Ahh! Music to my ears!

  13. #53
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    No Dillon for me, but my bench is festooned with an old RCBS A2 and a forest of black Pacific presses. Even when I go to the bench to reloading, I can't get away from the old American iron.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  14. #54
    Boolit Grand Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    You really don't need a stinking thousand dollar progressive reloader to produce good ammo.
    A thousand dollars? Really, for a press? Lucky me I've never seen a need for or wanted one.

    Rick
    "The people never give up their freedom . . . Except under some delusion." Edmund Burke

    "Let us remember that if we suffer tamely a lawless attack on our liberty, we encourage it." Samuel Adams

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  15. #55
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbrick View Post
    A thousand dollars? Really, for a press? Lucky me I've never seen a need for or wanted one.

    Rick
    Me neither, but I know a guy who has six of them on his bench and he is not a commercial reloader. The high end Dillon's with all the attachments, bells and whistles are quite pricey, running up to a hair over $1,600.00 a pop.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  16. #56
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    Me neither, but I know a guy who has six of them on his bench and he is not a commercial reloader. The high end Dillon's with all the attachments, bells and whistles are quite pricey, running up to a hair over $1,600.00 a pop.
    Some folks just like machinery, others think they need buckets full of ammo in the shortest possible time and still others just have way to much money to spend on such things. I fit in none of these categories.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  17. #57
    Boolit Grand Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    The high end Dillon's with all the attachments, bells and whistles are quite pricey, running up to a hair over $1,600.00 a pop.
    $1,600.00 I want to "feel" the primer coming out, how else ya gonna know if the pocket is getting loose. I want to "feel" the case being sized. I want to "feel" the boolit being seated. I want to feel these things on every single round I make. I competed for 30 years and for many of those years was shooting hundreds of rounds a month, many tens of thousands of rounds total and I felt every one of those things on every round.

    I have never once in my life gone into my loading room to be in a hurry and I have never once tried to see how many rounds an hour I could do. I guess it's lucky for Mike Dillon that's just me huh?

    Rick
    "The people never give up their freedom . . . Except under some delusion." Edmund Burke

    "Let us remember that if we suffer tamely a lawless attack on our liberty, we encourage it." Samuel Adams

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  18. #58
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Mike..."Back in the day" when they could be had for $50 to $60, I had four Colt New Service sixguns in 45 Colt. But, when I went back to school in 1970, they were all sold to help with expenses. I have missed them very much and when I started looking again about 9 years ago, they were quite high. It took me several years to find one in good shooting condition at a price I could tolerate and that is the sixgun in the pic. It is not going anywhere, until they ship me off to the home and take away my guns. That will be a sad day for them and me and I won't go easy into that good night!

    Come on Grandad, you have to understand you get older now, need constant care and the guns scare the attendants. Bull S^&%, I cry!
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  19. #59
    On Heaven's Range

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbrick View Post
    $1,600.00 I want to "feel" the primer coming out, how else ya gonna know if the pocket is getting loose. I want to "feel" the case being sized. I want to "feel" the boolit being seated. I want to feel these things on every single round I make.
    Rick
    Believe this or not, as you choose.

    BUT.... with a bit of experience, and PAYING ATTENTION, one can indeed feel all those things on a 550 press.

    The effort of de-priming is unimportant to me. What IS important in detecting loose primer pockets is SEATING pressure, and that is easily felt on the 550 because nothing else is going on at that point in the stroke.... just like a C-press. It's very easy to remove a case with a loose primer pocket from the press.

    The various functions occur in such a way that all are easily felt. If anything feels "wrong", it's time to stop and find out why.

    I never go to the bench in a hurry, either. I do MANY things beside operating that Dillon press. I cast bullets, with all that entails. I load on a variety of presses, besides the Dillon. I modify brass for various reasons and purposes. the beat goes on.....

    What the Dillon press does for me is allow me to produce more good ammo in a shorter period of time. SOME shooting activities, like it or not, require large quantities of ammunition. I was an active Bullseye shooter for many years, and our club even bought a Star Universal loader just for .38 Specials. I wish that I'd had the Dillon back then; it would have eased my shooting life considerably.

    If you don't like Dillons, or the concept of producing LOTS of rounds in short order, that's just fine. However, what I'm seeing here is some folks looking down their noses or sneering at those of us who have availed ourselves of the technology available to make SOME parts of our shooting activities a whole lot easier.
    Let's not forget that we are all in the same (somewhat leaky) boat.

    Mike Dillon deserves his success.
    Regards from BruceB in Nevada

    "The .30'06 is never a mistake." - Colonel Townsend Whelen

  20. #60
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Thread drift alert!!!

    This started out as a thread about the joys of casually loading with a 310 Hand Tool. Although at the side it took a bit of a poke at "The Boys Using Blue" and others of the "Progressive School" of reloading, it is a thread about Hand Tools on the Forum about Hand Tools. All this buzz about how well the Dillon™ and other progressives work is so much static on this particular thread.

    I have both a Dillon 550™ and a Star Progressive™ as well as a RCBS Jr™ and a Lyman All American, so I am fully aware of the great potential of bigger, more modern bench presses. I still like to go back to basics occasionally with my variety of Ideal #3 & #10 and Lyman 310 Tools. Why? Because I enjoy it! If you can't even admit that there is still a place in reloading for Hand Tools, what the @#*^% are you reading this forum for anyway?

    Rant over,
    Green Frog
    "It aint easy being green!"

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check